Paladin Vocation Ideas

[whitevo]

I want to change paladin class a skilled vocation to play with, but dont know what should i change to keep it interesting and keep it still hunterlike class.

Currently my ideas are:
First idea:
Paladins have to carry around different arrows which each makes different combination of elemental/physical damage.
Creatures will randomly change their resistance against elemental/physical damage
Examples:
1. some creatures say: "no fire will hurt me!"
and the fire resistance pumps up to 90%
2. some creatures simply change their specific resistance high up without saying anything and players have to figure it out by themselves. what attack to do.

Second idea:
paladins can taunt and untaunt with spells
to fool enemies. (spells ofc have exhaust time so they cant keep creatures confused non-stop)

Third idea:
Paladin spells create an object'trap' under them and if creature steps on it he takes LOT OF DMG!! !
[this is unlikely anyone would use that spell in teamhunt, because Sorcerers would be rly mad if team would move the creatures around.]

This is it, does anyone have more ideas how to make paladin unique and skilled vocation to play with?

Here are the 3 other vocations: http://otland.net/threads/newb-in-ot-scene-is-looking-for-support.226621/#post-2182966

You can suggest ideas to other classes too ofc.

 

[TheKabom]

Vocation Class:
Hunter/Huntress
Weapon:
Bow+Arrow-> promotion -> Crossbow+bolt->promotion->Star.
Specialability of these choices:
Bow+arrow-> Poison,Fire "ignite" kind of thing.
Crossbow+bolt-> Extra Distance+ damage increase.
Star= Once hit, you'll bleed for the next 15 seconds, stacks up to three times.
Special "spell"
I really like your idea, but the class should use the spell under the target and trap/bleed the target out for 2 seconds, 60 seconds of cooldown.

This vocation should also have something extra, like extra movement speed etc.

 

[whitevo]

Vocation Class:
Hunter/Huntress
Weapon:
Bow+Arrow-> promotion -> Crossbow+bolt->promotion->Star.
Specialability of these choices:
Bow+arrow-> Poison,Fire "ignite" kind of thing.
Crossbow+bolt-> Extra Distance+ damage increase.
Star= Once hit, you'll bleed for the next 15 seconds, stacks up to three times.
Special "spell"
I really like your idea, but the class should use the spell under the target and trap/bleed the target out for 2 seconds, 60 seconds of cooldown.

This vocation should also have something extra, like extra movement speed etc.

I will avoid touching promotions for now.
Stacking spell is interesting. i will take it for consideration.
trap will not go under target for sure. that would be too easy then.

instead of getting movement speed perhaps slowing movement speed.
Slowing spell would be cool idea, but if cast on target again would be too easy, but slowing trap is an idea!
hmm, gotta expand on that idea, this is legit Paladin gameplay. taunt and kite and then feign death(untaunt)

 

[TheKabom]

Doesn't need to be lock target and shoot spell.
Try to script skillshot.

 

[whitevo]

Doesn't need to be lock target and shoot spell.
Try to script skillshot.

what do you mean?

 

[Flatlander]

what do you mean?

You can make it so, Your character stops and takes aim before he shoots.

So you have to "lead" your target and have to aim it. If you cast the spell and your target moves out of your aim, then you miss. That way the slow spell is skill-based.

 

[whitevo]

so in other words. first the spell takes target position > then places delay > then shoots the spell into the target position it took before?
how is that even skillbased? player himself simply casts spell and hopes for target not to move.

 

[mich3208]

so in other words. first the spell takes target position > then places delay > then shoots the spell into the target position it took before?
how is that even skillbased? player himself simply casts spell and hopes for target not to move.

Or the person casts the spell in the direction he predicts his target to move: that's why it's a skillshot.

 

[whitevo]

So, like cross appears with runes?

 

[TheKabom]

Or the person casts the spell in the direction he predicts his target to move: that's why it's a skillshot.

exactly

 

[whitevo]

Too easy

 

[mich3208]

Too easy

Too easy? How is that easier than just pressing a hotkey for a 100% hit since it'll lock onto a target?

 

[whitevo]

Meanwhile paladin now has a Secondary weapon, daggers. Bows and xbows do not shoot targets close to you. Paladins now dont shoot projectiles when facing away from target.

Now thats what i call hard. Thought of this today when scripted paladin rewards.

 

[whitevo]

Too easy? How is that easier than just pressing a hotkey for a 100% hit since it'll lock onto a target?

Well, its not, but just adds more unthinkable clicking to game. Only skilled thing about is predicting/cooperating with knight movements. I rather have simple target damage and making paladin focus more on offtanking, helping others and outplaying lethal strikes to anyone. With his taunt-untaunt combo

 

[Flatlander]

Meanwhile paladin now has a Secondary weapon, daggers. Bows and xbows do not shoot targets close to you. Paladins now dont shoot projectiles when facing away from target.

Now thats what i call hard. Thought of this today when scripted paladin rewards.

Paladins are already always staying at a distance, so making it so they do not shoot targets close to them doesn't make it any harder.
Making the paladin have to face the target is just additional micro-management.

I think you are just using the wrong words.

Basically you want Strategy and Tactics to be the focus, and you want players to have to use Micro more.

Skill is something that takes talent and practice to obtain. What you are introducing is mechanics that require managing your character.
It's like FTL or other management games.

Things you have introduced.

1. Ammo Management (Make sure you have the right ammo)
2. Aggro Management (Use Taunt/Untaunt to manage monster aggro)
3. Position Management (Make sure you are positioned correctly and facing the correct direction)

Thinks that would be skill-based mechanics:

1. Aiming (Anything that you can miss)
2. Dodging (Dodging things that were aimed at you)

For example, if I land a M-wall in front of you perfectly to block your escape while we are both moving, that would of been skill.

But if while i'm running I keep 3-7 sqm away from you so my bow works, that isn't skill, that is just character management.

BOTH can be fun, but you kind of confused people when asking for suggestions saying you want skill-based vocations. When you really meant Micro-Management based vocations.

 

[whitevo]

i want it be easy to play but hard to master (so 'pro-players' can min-max the situations and makes most of it) Also, if possible, i want it to be visibly understandable, the differences between casual player and professional player.
(in other words. Other high standard players should recognize a player and professional player.)

Paladins are already always staying at a distance

yes, i want to still keep paladins distance fighters.

so making it so they do not shoot targets close to them doesn't make it any harder.

IT DOES, if the target is targeting you. It makes it VERY hard to shoot AND run at the same time.

Making the paladin have to face the target is just additional micro-management.

yes, the act of changing range weapon to close-range weapon, would be act of micro-management.
The act of doing some kind of spell, would be the act of micro-management.
Even your skill-based mechanics are the act of micro-managing something.
So lets move this fancy word out the way.

Skill is something that takes talent and practice to obtain. What you are introducing is mechanics that require managing your character.

Managing character is skill (when it comes to my server, at least that's what i'm trying to do)
At first i though, you are thinking skill is something very specific, but you said it yourself: "Skill is something that takes talent and practice to obtain." (So now i'm just confused)

You know what does skill mean, but you are trying to explain it oddly. Let me explain what is the skill part of the things you brought up but layered as "managing character".
(Even though most likely if you would read your own post, you would understand that you messed up explaining skill and micro-management as opposite things, but you should know one comes from another)

1. Ammo Management (Make sure you have the right ammo)

Skill is:
Speed of noticing, you need to change your attack type
Speed of changing the attack type to "correct one"
Knowing, what is the best attack type of all the "correct ones"

All these variables are changed by the intensity of situation (variables Are 'time' and knowledge from previous experiences)

1. Aggro Management (Use Taunt/Untaunt to manage monster aggro)

Using previous example, try to explain me (or at least yourself), what is the difference between skilled "aggro manager" and unskilled "aggro manager". [i like the way you labeled my mechanics, i will use them in vocation description ]

Position Management (Make sure you are positioned correctly and facing the correct direction)

Dodging (Dodging things that were aimed at you)

lol? you bring out my positioning not skill-based and your dodging a skill-based thing!! haha. Dodging = positioning (we are still playing tibia here, you are either in spell radius, or you are not, nothing flies here in slowmotion, and even if it would it still wouldn't make positioning character to shoot a non-skill-based act )

well i have been nitpicking you for while, even though you prolly reading this as comedy of words now.
But your sentences continue!

But if while i'm running I keep 3-7 sqm away from you so my bow works, that isn't skill, that is just character management.

First of all if you are running away, your bow does not work, because you are Facing away UNLESS you already figured out that each time you step away, you press Ctrl+Direction of target. And dont come tell me now this requires no skill and its another freaking micro managing (what it is).
can bows rly shoot 7sqm?? thats like offscreen already xD (but that's cool idea)

 

[Flatlander]

Let me explain my thought process. When I see new ideas, I close my eyes and I play it out in my head.

So I close my eyes and start playing on your server, and I am a paladin.

There is a Dragon Chasing me. I load Energy Arrows into my arrow slot.
I'd run away, Hold Ctrl, turn around, take a shot, run some more, Hold Ctrl, turn around, take a shot, run some more, Hold Ctrl, turn around, take a shot.

And while doing this, I have to watch my arrows hit my target, and see if it starts doing lower damage, if it does, i'll need to switch my current ammo to a new ammo. SO lets say i'm using Energy Arrows, i'll switch to earth arrows.

Back to the Run away, Hold Ctrl, turn around, take a shot, run some more, Hold Ctrl, turn around, take a shot, switch arrows again to Fire this time, Run away Hold Ctrl, Turn Around, Take a shot.

So then I open my eyes. And there are 2 possible thoughts. "That would be fun", or "That would not be fun". and my brain thought "That would not be fun".

Why? Because it's repetitive, my arm would be falling off, and it is unnecessary, and I don't even feel cool or amazing for doing it. It's just extra work needed to play a paladin.

Now lets say you had to aim your arrows or bolts (They shoot directly from where your character is facing). ~I close my eyes again~

A dragon is chasing me. I load arrows into my arrow slot.
I start running away, I move left, turn around, take a shot, the dragon moves left and bearly dodges the arrow, I run some more, turn around, aiming again with my next shot. It hits the dragon! I run some more, turn around, take a shot, Another hit! I feel skilled, I hit twice in a row!.

THAT is what skill-based combat is, You should feel rewarded for doing good. Not just "This is how you play paladin now, you turn around and hit things".

**By the way, I am not trying to say your ideas are bad, I am just saying I do not think they are what most people think are skill-based mechanics. And you may want to re-think putting in so many things to manage during combat, because it will cause players to get exhausted quickly.**

 

[whitevo]

lets not take dragon in picture. it takes at least 2+ weeks playing in my server and then you would have slight chance with 4+ team to take on dragon.

anyway. lets simply change the dragon to something what is soloable and kiteable easily > Mummy.

[Mummy is early game enemy with nothing but close range death spells and midrange slow spell]
[there is no need to bring out challangeing soloable creatures right now, the purpose here is show the difference how would your idea and my idea look like in this game]

(you are skilled and mechanics are Without aiming and with position management) {kiting* refers to this: you shoot, you step back, turn around. Rinse repeat}
There is a Mummy chasing you. You load Energy Arrows into your arrow slot.
You are Kiting* Mummy effectively.
+ you are placing traps and moving so that mummy will step on it. He take nice amount of dmg and is slowed what allows you do more hits before moving.
This is first time for you are in this mummy room, you accidentally kiting* yourself into another mummy.
They cast slow effects what you cant take off, but 1 mummy is even more slowed than you, thanks to your trap ,so he cant catch you up yet.
But the other one is catching up and fast.
You decide not to move and do as much damage to the mummy who has less hp, when the almost dead mummy gets close. you switch to dagger.
+you still use trap every time you can, because it makes lot of dmg.
Finally you killed 1mummy and you proceed to kite* the 2nd mummy to save remaining hp until it also dies.

[The meaning of kiting is different and bold text shows whats different in this copy-paste text]
(you are skilled and mechanics are With aiming and without position management) {kiting* refers to this: you aim-shoot, you make 2-3 steps back. Rinse repeat}
There is a Mummy chasing you. You load Energy Arrows into your arrow slot.
You are Kiting Mummy effectively. You shoot the front tile of mummy because its the fastest route for mummy to reach you.
+ you are placing traps and moving so that mummy will step on it. He take nice amount of dmg and is slowed what allows you do more hits before moving.
This is first time for you are in this mummy room, you accidentally kiting yourself into another mummy. Still Aiming your shots on tile what is front of mummy
They cast slow effects what you cant take off, but 1 mummy is even more slowed thanks to your trap ,so he cant catch you up.
But the other one is catching up and fast.
You decide not to move and do as much damage to the mummy who has less hp, when the almost dead mummy gets close. You Stop aiming on tile front of the mummy. You switch to dagger.
+you still use trap every time you can, because they make lot of dmg
Finally you killed 1mummy and you proceed to kite the 2nd mummy to save remaining hp until it also dies. Once again you start shooting the tile front of the mummy in order to hit mummy.

Either way you kite and action is repetitive.
In your post you made it look like the "aim'shooting" is different every time. guess what, its not, i would miss ~5% of the time and only because it got so repetitive, i didn't even look where i shoot, I simply assumed i shoot it to right spot.

THAT is what skill-based combat is, You should feel rewarded for doing good. Not just "This is how you play paladin now, you turn around and hit things".

You described your own method unfun and fun with that sentence. What?!
(this sentence only makes sense if you have very little experience with Skill-based combats)
Come out of closed-mindness, NOW.

 

[whitevo]

And you may want to re-think putting in so many things to manage during combat, because it will cause players to get exhausted quickly.**

thats why i don't want to add unnecessary things like aiming and its rarely "skill-based" thing.

EDIT:
What i ment with last sentence:
Im not going to place aiming to paladin spells because:
predicting a predictable target is not a skill and it requires extra momentum intention.
You may say my idea is not bad idea, but i say this idea is bad idea.

[Its not like i have not though of aimlike thing before
Its already set in stone that if ever gona open PvP in my server
there will be PvP special runes what can only hit targets if its aimed
Because predicting an unpredictable target is skill.]

 

[Flatlander]

thats why i don't want to add unnecessary things like aiming and its rarely "skill-based" thing.

EDIT:
What i ment with last sentence:
Im not going to place aiming to paladin spells because:
predicting a predictable target is not a skill and it requires extra momentum intention.
You may say my idea is not bad idea, but i say this idea is bad idea.

[Its not like i have not though of aimlike thing before
Its already set in stone that if ever gona open PvP in my server
there will be PvP special runes what can only hit targets if its aimed
Because predicting an unpredictable target is skill.]

I agree, predicting an unpredictable target is not skill.

But every single possible target in tibia is predictable. So I don't get your argument.

Anyways, do whatever you want, I was just a bit disappointed to see you argue with EVERY SINGLE person that has posted ideas, and you tell all of them "Nothing you all say requires any skill, only my ideas require skill" after you specifically asked for ideas and suggestions.

But I will let you continue your ridiculous thread alone.