[UK][7.4] Tibiantis Online

[kay]

They killed the black market*.

Only for runes, because they are now the vendor. How does it solve anything in terms of p2w? I'd say it gets even worse, since normally runes have to be created by players and therefore their supply is limited, while runes in the store are unlimited and they are created out of nothing.
They didn't solve anything with p2w, and obvously it wasn't even their goal.

 

[rinoo]

Only for runes, because they are now the vendor. How does it solve anything in terms of p2w? I'd say it gets even worse, since normally runes have to be created by players and therefore their supply is limited, while runes in the store are unlimited and they are created out of nothing.

They didn't solve p2w we all agree on that. They just moved rune market to their own store. What I brought here was the "soulbone" system, nothing else from this other OT.

@Adposatnr

"so in most cases u fight with someobdy over spawn lets say ab castle u both have 20lvls and both waste a lot of runes and if u eventually win u loot useless runes u can throw to water... such a great idea indeed"

So the whole point to kill someone else is to loot runes from him? nothing else? ^.- what im missing.

"no market isnt killed at all i just bought few weeks ago 5k medivia coins"

Yea but we are talking about runes. I know you were there back then in Carlin as usual and im sure you also saw tons and tons of farms flee the server xD I know you were there I even remember your name. Don't lie mr rat.

 

[Jonathewise]

Tibia itselfs has alot of limited mechanics u cant implement, the game as its own flaws already one of em is this, soulbound might help a bit, but theres always other ways of cheating, sharing accounts/exp services etc... the game is what it is, if u want old school tibia this is it, whatever ur trying to implement to disolve cheaters wont really work 100%, cuz the mechanics are already implemented to have this limitations, netherless all i can say, for what its out there in the market of old school tibia, this one is the most complete, haters or not haters around...

 

[kay]

They didn't solve p2w we all agree on that.

(...)

"no, [black] market isnt killed at all"
Yea but we are talking about runes.

To sum it up: they didn't solve the p2w (you just literally said that "they literally did", but ok). They didn't even kill the black market either. Point?

Was I right in the below afterall, or not?

You took so many quotes from my post and wrote so much, but for some reason you omitted the most important paragraphs, where I explain the core issue. So once again, where the "p2w" in online games comes from? (1) As long as there are people willing to spend real money to gain advantage over the rest, (2) as long as there is also free flow of items, and (3) as long as those items have any use (and thus value) -> they will be traded on the black market. As long as other players can be effectively helpful in achieving something meaningful, they can also be hired for that service. Old Tibia is a game that does have free flow of goods, and a game in which you are very much dependant on other players.

So how can you get rid of the black market? You have to either stop the free flow of goods and services, make it that players can't exchange them or help each other. But this goes against the whole concept of Tibia as an online sandbox community-oriented game. You can also make everything worthless, items, levels, achievements etc. For instance, people won't trade items on one of those for-fun servers, where everyone has 50 level with unlimited supplies just to fight. But this goes against the concept of an RPG longterm server, where everything is supposed to be meaningful. So it's again that "have a cake or eat a cake" type of dilemma.

 

[Rolledstone]

well I mean saying you cant solve player trading
it only takes you to make purchase from sellers and then track their accounts to ban them. lol... this would be heavy hit though and once the black market is not there u lose like 90% of players and then the rest because nobody to buy runes from. I mean once there is no real money trading those otses seem to die off really quick. rmt is part of this game whether people like it or not because there is always someone who is willing to spend money to get better/advantage over others its power tripping but I mean the game was designed that way.

 

[rinoo]

Tibia itselfs has alot of limited mechanics u cant implement, the game as its own flaws already one of em is this, soulbound might help a bit, but theres always other ways of cheating, sharing accounts/exp services etc... the game is what it is, if u want old school tibia this is it, whatever ur trying to implement to disolve cheaters wont really work 100%, cuz the mechanics are already implemented to have this limitations, netherless all i can say, for what its out there in the market of old school tibia, this one is the most complete, haters or not haters around...

well the game mechanics, sprites, sources, and content are 100% editable. It’s all open source, and there’s a solid amount of information on the forums to implement whatever you want if you put your mind to it. With AI now its even easier. I’m just a regular senior linux user, and I’ve been able to make changes to a project without having much programming knowledge.

But, in the end, it’s true it all depends on the people. If we could all just agree not to cheat anymore on the current Tibiantis, it would be heaven, right?

 

[kay]

well I mean saying you cant solve player trading
it only takes you to make purchase from sellers and then track their accounts to ban them. lol...

Seriously... Sir, do you expect us to be buying all the items off every website, every auction, every post in every group, under thousands of fake identities for way more money than the server makes itself? And then you expect those players not to create closed groups with only verified sellers and buyers? Like I am going to somehow infiltrate every team or guild and spy teamspeaks and discords to track their gold/rune providers?
"It ONLY takes" ... that's briliant.

 

[rinoo]

To sum it up: they didn't solve the p2w (you just literally said that "they literally did", but ok). They didn't even kill the black market either. Point?

Was I right in the below afterall, or not?

Oh lord you are so literal (squarehead) even knowing exactly what I ment.

To sum it up:
*They killed rune farming black market.
*They killed pay to win rune market between players outside the game. (and they implemented something worse but thats not important for the sake of this discussion).

 

[kay]

To sum it up:
*They killed rune farming black market.
*They killed pay to win rune market between players outside the game. (and they implemented something worse but thats not important for the sake of this discussion).

By becoming the vendor themselves! What does it change for Durin's sake?
Can you just shake that "square head" of yours and tell me again what was the pre-assumed goal in our discussion? Was it to change the vendor? To fuel the black market with gold / other stuff instead of runes? ... or was it to get rid of the p2w aspect of the game?

And let me ask again, since you didn't answer. Do you agree with the below?

You took so many quotes from my post and wrote so much, but for some reason you omitted the most important paragraphs, where I explain the core issue. So once again, where the "p2w" in online games comes from? (1) As long as there are people willing to spend real money to gain advantage over the rest, (2) as long as there is also free flow of items, and (3) as long as those items have any use (and thus value) -> they will be traded on the black market. As long as other players can be effectively helpful in achieving something meaningful, they can also be hired for that service. Old Tibia is a game that does have free flow of goods, and a game in which you are very much dependant on other players.

So how can you get rid of the black market? You have to either stop the free flow of goods and services, make it that players can't exchange them or help each other. But this goes against the whole concept of Tibia as an online sandbox community-oriented game. You can also make everything worthless, items, levels, achievements etc. For instance, people won't trade items on one of those for-fun servers, where everyone has 50 level with unlimited supplies just to fight. But this goes against the concept of an RPG longterm server, where everything is supposed to be meaningful. So it's again that "have a cake or eat a cake" type of dilemma.

 

[Adposatnr]

So the whole point to kill someone else is to loot runes from him? nothing else? ^.- what im missing.

yes on a tibia which is heavily community based (and in case of open-pvp world on pvp) killing somebody often result in profit

killing somebody and looting literally nothing gets quite boring after some time

Yea but we are talking about runes. I know you were there back then in Carlin as usual and im sure you also saw tons and tons of farms flee the server xD I know you were there I even remember your name. Don't lie mr rat.

they didnt flee lmao they just moved to other source of income since runes can be bought for gold ingame its super ineffective to runemake them

e.g you can make ~10k/h profit with 30 knight 60/60 skills fully afk and that result in over 3 bp of uhs which would normally take you 10h to make on non-promoted character and ~6.6h on promoted character on 1x server ofc

knight can be facc and he will just keep making more and more profit per hour those makers are not needed anymore you can just bot gold and buy whatever rune u want after some time one botting ek will be worth over 20 non-promoted and 13.2 promoted mages why over? because u dont spent blanks or uhs its a bit more risky to get banned but time prove it was much better on medivia

i've been around that change aswell killing veneuselan botting on medivia AND getting deleted for doing so at that point it was too late to revert changes or fight botters/rmt medivia gave up

it is currently legal to account share and trade characters on medivia (and it wasnt back then) few months after our bans they added griefing rule u can disturb people freely anymore so nobody disturb those botters nowadays

To sum it up:
*They killed rune farming black market.
*They killed pay to win rune market between players outside the game. (and they implemented something worse but thats not important for the sake of this discussion).

if changing goods people trade for real money from runes to gold solve issue then you can aswell solve xp service by adding soulbound xp tokens! people will kill monsters to drop tokens they can exchange for experience points that will definitely kill xp services by renaming them to xp token services!

 

[rinoo]

By becoming the vendor themselves! What does it change for Durin's sake?
Can you just shake that "square head" of yours and tell me again what was the pre-assumed goal in our discussion? Was it to change the vendor? To fuel the black market with gold / other stuff instead of runes? ... or was it to get rid of the p2w aspect of the game?

And let me ask again, since you didn't answer. Do you agree with the below?

what was the pre-assumed goal in our discussion?
- To solve the major black market goods outside the game, runes.

Was it to change the vendor?
- No.

To fuel the black market with gold / other stuff instead of runes?
- No, why would this be the intention?

or was it to get rid of the p2w aspect of the game?
As much as possible but we ALL agree, from Madrid to Honk Kong that this is never gonna be 100% effective. But mr Rinoo here brought an idea to lesser the gap between black market rune interactions outside the game. You can trade Guild Houses? Sure, you can trade a magic sword for 500 euro? Of course.

And let me ask again, since you didn't answer. Do you agree with the below?

Not at all, and I answered it point by point.

 

[Adposatnr]

what was the pre-assumed goal in our discussion?
- To solve the major black market goods outside the game, runes.

nobody said that u wont kill black market for runes actually u will kill entire rune market ingame making it super annoying during pvp when u cant give buddy sd to combo somebody down or mwalls/gfbs on open battle when somebody ran out of them

and theres still other rune sources e.g making them on mfs and mfs bought directly from npc for gold in the end you solve nothing but cause problems and make playing ur server super annoying for regular players literally forcing players to run two additional character for no reason


Its overall bad idea and thats what we try to explain you it is bad on multiple levels and makes nonsense to implement people can still buy gold and mfs for that gold and then pay somebody to login their character and drink these mfs gap between p2w guys and regular players will be even bigger due mlv difference on top of that having a lot of mages with mf inflated mlv on 7.4 low rate isnt good for balance

 

[kay]

To fuel the black market with gold / other stuff instead of runes?
- No, why would this be the intention?

Because that's literally what you are proposing. You're saying it straight that p2w will still exist, right? The black market will still exist as well, right? Then you tell me "but it will be for other items/services and not runes!". Sure, you can make runes useless, you can put theim into your own store, you can rename them, or remove them from the game completely. No runes are sold on the black market anymore. What did it actually solve for the game though?

Not at all, and I answered it point by point.

You did not refer to that specific part at any point, that's why I asked. I don't think you even read it, because it literally only explains why it is impossible to get rid of p2w in a game like Tibia, which you've just said that you agree with, but at the same time you don't agree "at all".

 

[Recreant]

4 years
2 updates

1 if u believe ankh was there from day 1

not a dead server kekw

tibiantis hr waiting room... day 1622

 

[rinoo]

Its overall bad idea and thats what we try to explain you it is bad on multiple levels and makes nonsense to implement people can still buy gold and mfs for that gold and then pay somebody to login their character and drink these mfs gap between p2w guys and regular players will be even bigger due mlv difference on top of that having a lot of mages with mf inflated mlv on 7.4 low rate isnt good for balance

I admitted very early in the discussion manafluids its a low point of the idea, but I also gave an option for it.

Because that's literally what you are proposing. You're saying it straight that p2w will still exist, right? The black market will still exist as well, right? Then you tell me "but it will be for other items/services and not runes!". Sure, you can make runes useless, you can put theim into your own store, you can rename them, or remove them from the game completely. No runes are sold on the black market anymore. What did it actually solve for the game though?


You did not refer to that specific part at any point, that's why I asked. I don't think you even read it, because it literally only explains why it is impossible to get rid of p2w in a game like Tibia, which you've just said that you agree with, but at the same time you don't agree "at all".

Becuase explaining it back again to your would've be go back to a comment 2 pages above.

WHAT - DID - IT - SOLVE?

Kay, please read this carefully, one last time. This system solves the issue of players buying runes from others who are only in the game to grind real money from this item. On this server, they’ll be limited by the time they spend "cooking" these runes, rather than being able to buy them outside of it. If you need 'X' amount of UHs to reach level 'Y', then you’ll need to spend 'Z' amount of time manasitting. There’s no shortcut, making it fairer for those who invest time rather than money.

In other words, the time you spent in game is compensated properly. Obviously it depends on your knowledge how to use it. (anote benefit from it).

To explain it in simple terms: if a kid wants to play as a paladin with their school friend, and the goal is to reach level 100, both players will need to spend the same amount of time (considering equal game knowledge) to make the supplies and reach that goal.

Is this system more interesting than the current Tibia 7.4 supply system? Honestly, I don't know. Mr. Rat thinks it’s boring because you wouldn’t loot runes, and he might be right.. or it might not suit his player niche. Also as I said before, implementing whatever new system requires sacrifes. Like sorry mr Rat, bring enough runes to battle next time if you didn't want to loose.

However, as Mr. Rat has pointed out (who makes at least actual real questions instead of yours "zombie useless not worhty runes zero benefits makers") there are weak points in this idea, and I admit that. But since we’re all senior Tibia players with some experience, I believe we could find solutions to these if THIS WERE A PROPER DISCUSSION THREAD of course. But it’s not. Blessings.

 

[Handicap Ninja]

1 believe

1 if u believe ankh was there from day 1

just don't care

in this idea

this idea echoes down the exile list ... and it's gone

 

[Adposatnr]

But since we’re all senior Tibia players with some experience, I believe we could find solutions to these if THIS WERE A PROPER DISCUSSION THREAD of course. But it’s not. Blessings.

lmao now we are supposed to fix all flaws of ur solution to a problem that isnt solvable without breaking entire economy and gameplay


but if u want to have a game without p2w at all you will have to host it on localhost for urself only that is sad truth about gaming also you can just remove almost every game mechanics and what makes tibia unique game and then maybe u will be left with only xp services (but at that point nobody will play this server so it will feel like playing on localhost anyway)

 

[soulado]

I said a lot of things. You refused to see my perspective on any one of them.
Many others have done the same thing but you keep being as stubborn as a fucking goat.
I am getting real tired of your self righteousness and your attitude of superiority.

Either you can claim that you keep arguing for your points/thoughts and explaining things or you can insult people in your "not so insulting" ways.
You cant have it both ways and still keep up the appearance of superiority.

Your last sentence pretty much proves your entire attitude towards others and your narcissistic thought patterns.
"if you have nothing to say"
So out of all the text that I wrote, you conclude in the end that I had nothing to say?

I swear talking to you is not even like talking to a wall, its more like bashing your head in with a car stereo expecting it to start giving you the winning lottery numbers for next week.

Your perspective is delusional.

The fact you have me, zach, sitting here agreeing with everything kay says is testimony to that.

I think kays idea of the “future” of tibiantis is complete and utter dog shit. This is based off of hard evidence. Both as being a “top player” and an onlooker with no involvement for past 1-2 years. Kay has his flaws on growth, but his logical part is very sound and logical. Though, this might be why he lacks a vision, hes 95% logic and 5% creative.

When kay played, at least in my experience playing when he did (he knows this as true), he was not a powergamer. He was not a war player. He also wasnt a hardcore rpg guy, neither was he a community based player. He was a pk team player. That style of play leads to certain outlooks on the game. Nearly all of his changes (i tend to agree with 65%) are all short term issue focused. However, he provided a band aid to stop the entire server from pg (tomb removal) but his choices allowed for the extreme junkies to pg (sds for warlocks/behemoths).

He solved the problem of 100s of lv 160s, but did not realise that the outcome is still the same (and arguably a less fair one). That outcome being yhat the true junkies still buy their way to the top 5% of lv. There used to be on servers a large majority 60%+ being rp/ek as top lv. Currently it takes a knight 3-4x as long as a rp/mage to gain same exp/hr. (Hmm vdl vs sd/explo warlock/behemoth) The non cheating rp and mages have the same issue. It used to be POSSIBLE, though more difficult, for rp and ek to maintain a reasonable lv difference via tombs. Its currently not. Will he alter his perspective? History says no. Theres enough data to make him question it, i truly do not have a guess why he does not.

Ive noticed in the past day or two, he replies to nearly all of you whos entire theory lacks data/historical context/current context as well as long server sided confirmation. However, he has replied to my posts a single time, with a meme. That says all you need to know about where his viewpoint is.

 

[Rolledstone]

Seriously... Do you expect us to be buying all the items off every website, every auction, every post in every group, under thousands of fake identities for way more money than the server makes itself? And then you expect those players not to create closed groups with only verified sellers and buyers? Like I am going to somehow infiltrate every team or guild and spy teamspeaks and discords to track their gold/rune providers?
"It ONLY takes" ... that's fucking briliant.

I stated that I do not really care

4 years
2 updates

1 if u believe ankh was there from day 1

not a dead server kekw

tibiantis hr waiting room... day 1622

in csgo terms we call this the copium stage
the server is missing significant updates more frequent and the fact that administration is not willing to take on more people to aid them in development is "kay'razy" to me. but then again anyone who plays it plays it for nostalgia but just like with everything else this fades.
the lack of community lead events new player acquisition and the fact that many players have high mlvl characters that can just bomb anyone adds to the non-longevity of server.

 

[Cafumbre]

Most active otland thread since 2009.
Mods are somewhere praying to god they dont have to close it.

If you want Kay I can provide you invites to like 4 fb groups/chats where you could bait people into selling you stuff and then ban them but that is not possible right? Since its not possible to track players activity outside of the game yeah?
Except if you want to sell stuff outside of the game you need a fucking place to do it. Perhaps they will turn to fucking telegram ye?

You make it seem like selling tibia items is a criminal enterprise where people plan shit and take precautionary measures.
If you cant catch people selling items in tibia then please for the love of god come to Sweden and educate yourself to become a police officer. I along with many of my friends would be very very happy over that.