[UK][7.4] Tibiantis Online

[rinoo]

Why don't you improve it, then? Let me guess... "I don't know how, but YOU must do it!"
Wq
It doesn't matter whether someone implemented that idea somewhere, but whether it makes any sense. I explained to you why I find it's a bad idea. I didn't say "no, because no", but gave my reasoning. Since you apparently can't reply with anything, but "hurr durr you are stubborn squarehead', it means that you probably didn't put much thought into it yourself.

Because to whatever here its written you just close the door of it on sight. "This idea is terrible and just gives more problem" maybe its true maybe not but the way u refer to whatever some say sounds like its all about to crash it and win arguments over and over for 150 pages. I have think MUCH about this idea, i have actually develop it and i'd love to discuss about it whenever there is someone wanting to listen being clear you are not as with every single other comment lol ofc might be not the perfect place but we were just talking lfmao. And im sorry but isnt what this whole forum is about? Develop ots? Am I wrong?

When did I say must do it? Wtf we were just talking lol take it easy Kay.

 

[kay]

Because to whatever here its written you just close the door of it on sight. "This idea is terrible and just gives more problem"

That's not how I answer. I ALWAYS say EXACTLY why the idea is terrible and WHAT problems it creates.

It's your idea, so present it in a proper way as to convince people. Answer all the doubts, respond to the points given. Don't just throw some general idea, demanding that I should accept it without question, and if there is any problem with it - you don't know how, but I must solve it.

Also, if you yourself say upfront that your idea "ofc can't be implemented on the current Tibiantis", then why do you even expect me to discuss it? I don't have any other projects but Tibiantis.

 

[Cafumbre]

Don't claim the right to speak for "everyone", it doesn't add value to your opinion, but only takes it away.
I gave you the whole detailed explanation (twice) as to why what you demand is technically not possible. You answered that "everything is possible!!" without any context, and called me delusional, but were unable to refute my reasoning whatsoever. If you read my posts, I always explain exactly why I think what I think, and I always carefuly try to respond to the arguments of the other side. So no, I'm not the problem, no matter how many of you can spawn here.

I never called you delusional did I? And I didnt speak FOR anyone.
I made a remark on how you somehow manage to never accept others viewpoints/arguments like the last few of us that have posted in this thread.

I agree that you do explain what you think but you do lose your patience pretty quickly and manage to turn very hostile if people do not agree with you.

Never once did I insult you in any of my posts here yet you managed to indirectly accuse me of being schizophrenic.

If that does not show you that the way you reply to people is ineffective and wrong then I dont know what would.

On the contrary actually, I even complemented you several times yet you somehow managed to find an unflattering way to insult me and accuse me of being ’detached from reality’ as if tibia was some type of standard where mentally healthy people gathered.

I’d suggest going over our conversation in this thread some other day when you are feeling less hostile and perhaps you may see things in a different light.

Wish you the best, yours truly mini schizo.

 

[kay]

I never called you delusional did I? And I didnt speak FOR anyone.
I made a remark on how you somehow manage to never accept others viewpoints/arguments like the last few of us that have posted in this thread.

I agree that you do explain what you think but you do lose your patience pretty quickly and manage to turn very hostile if people do not agree with you.

Never once did I insult you in any of my posts here yet you managed to indirectly accuse me of being schizophrenic.

If that does not show you that the way you reply to people is ineffective and wrong then I dont know what would.

What? You literally implied that the server's creators and its players must be delusional. On the other hand, I didn't say anything about you, only that your expectations were unrealistic (because they are).
I do accept views that are properly and logically reasoned. Yours wasn't, but I still patiently tried to explain the problem to you twice or thrice. You ignored my explanation, and then went offtopic and started shitposting ad personam. That's how we ended here.

 

[rinoo]

Also, if you yourself say upfront that your idea "ofc can't be implemented on the current Tibiantis", then why do you even expect me to discuss it? I don't have any other projects but Tibiantis.

This is the reason i told u squarehead. We know you are not working in a new project at least not officialy. But I asume from here to the next 70 years there will be... The same as i asume its gonna be a RDR 3, starfield 2 or a new Breaking bad spinn off. Maybe it wont but i just asume. Its a 100% valid tought.

 

[kay]

This is the reason i told u squarehead. We know you are not working in a new project at least not officialy. But I asume from here to the next 70 years there will be... The same as i asume its gonna be a RDR 3, starfield 2 or a new Breaking bad spinn off. Maybe it wont but i just asume. Its a 100% valid tought.

I won't be starting another OT project for sure.
If we ever open a new Tibiantis world, it won't differ from the current one in gameplay; only by (possibly but not necessarily) hosting location, pvp type, and rates.

 

[soulado]

Ofc sounds terrible for someone who has put zero brain on it. There are tons of ways to improve this simple and humble idea which i brought according to recent discussions.

As i said this has been use in other servers but w.e it ends up here np mr stuborn squarehead gm.

About your go to other thread comment: When US server? Comming soon this project? ^^ glad to hear how its going cheers

It takes 7 bps of hmm, and 2-3 bps of uhs to spend a single hour in vdl for a paladin or knight at roughly lv 100~ (its definitely closer to 9 and 4)

You expect players to mana sit for over 16 hours to gain 1 hour worth of exp?

Clearly you have not put much thought into it yourself.

Post automatically merged: Sep 11, 2024

I won't be starting another OT project for sure.
If we ever open a new Tibiantis world, it won't differ from the current one in gameplay; only by (possibly but not necessarily) hosting location, pvp type, and rates.

Right which is why your community does not grow and consists mostly of p2w junkies and brazilians.

 

[kay]

Right which is why your community does not grow and consists mostly of p2w junkies and brazilians.

 

[rinoo]

It takes 7 bps of hmm, and 2-3 bps of uhs to spend a single hour in vdl for a paladin or knight at roughly lv 100~ (its definitely closer to 9 and 4)

You expect players to mana sit for over 16 hours to gain 1 hour worth of exp?

No, I don't expect you to mana-sit for 16 hours for just 1 hour of exp. I've thought about this idea for a while, and I’ve even implemented part of it in my own low-rate 7.4 Tibia server project, which I’m not ready to reveal just yet.

Unfortunately, since Kay basically told me to "fk off you and your idea," I didn’t want to dive too deep into it, but let’s explore it one more time.

First of all, you're jumping straight into the math, which, in the end, is what matters most, right? How many runes am I going to have for the time spent making them, which ultimately decides how fun the server is. But before jumping into the math, let me explain the concept briefly.

It’s actually very simple, and like I said, I’m not reinventing the wheel here. I’ve seen this in many other servers, and I’m just adding more features to the concept.

You make the runes you need. How? By using the well-known concept of "soulbound" runes, which Medivia implemented in 2018. You can make as many runes as you need, as long as they’re used on the same account they were created on. The big difference is that Medivia only allowed runes made by premium accounts to be traded, cutting off the Venezuelan market, but that's a whole different story.

Let’s give an example of how this would work.

Imagine you’re creating an account on my server. Let’s call it Tibiancas. From the moment you log in, by default, you’ll have the option to create three characters. As always, you can choose the name, gender, and world, but with one difference: you get to choose which one will be the main character. That’s it. The main character will be a normal sorcerer, knight, paladin, or druid you know.

The other two characters will have a different condition by default; they will be suppliers for the main character. Any runes they create can only be used by the main character. Another condition is that these characters cannot be used to kill other characters, but they can be killed, meaning you still have to protect them, feed them, hide them, refill blanks, and so on. They will be stuck at level 15 with promotion forever, and their sole purpose is to supply runes to the main character. You can use them simultaneously with your main and other characters, no problem implementing this in the client.

Kay said this would bring more MC/cheaters. Why? Why would you MC if the runes are worthless for other accounts? You could have two "main" characters, but for what purpose? I don’t see an issue with that since they won’t benefit from MC.

Kay also said it would kill the rune supply from friends (I guess this is a thing in Tibiantis? people give free runes to friends? wow). so how so? You can still use your own runes to heal a friend, cast sio on them, or team hunt to make it worthwhile. What about creatures dropping some runes? What about daily rune rewards based on your level and time spent in the game? (Seen in many other servers.)

Kay also said knights would just use their money on mana fluids. This is indeed a low point. With this system, money would be much less valuable. Why would you grind if you can’t buy runes? Well, mana fluids could be exclusive to the "main character" status on the account.

Kay also mentioned that black market players would still trade characters, money, and equipment... just not runes. Sure, but aren’t runes the biggest issue? What do pay to win junkies as u mention mostly pay for? runes. How did that knight obtain the MPA he sold on the Tibiantis Facebook trade market? With runes bought with real money. How did that team win the war? And so on. This is the games main problem, and I’m 99% sure that CipSoft didn’t anticipate this issue when they implemented the rune system in 2000, unaware that their server population would jump from 400 to 15k+ active players the following year.

So, the benefits I see from implementing this idea:

• Redefine the "buy runes -> go exp -> go war -> repeat" cycle to "if you want to war, put in the same effort as the other guy."
• Make leveling and grinding more interesting by limiting the amount of runes obtainable.
• Create a sub-PvP system where "makers" are still targets but with fewer consequences, giving the frag system a second life.
• Make the game’s economy less important.
• To make skills and knowledge, as well as resource optimization, more valuable within the game.

As Kay said, this is a general idea, a concept, but I’m working on it, inspired by servers I’ve loved. If you’re interested, I can gladly share the list of servers and how they implemented this concept.

So, the maths... I think the math isn’t important for now. It could be one, two, or three "makers" allowed might be more, maybe less.. maybe just one.. We don't know yet. Maybe you can trade runes at a certain level (like at lvl 50 with premium), or maybe there’s a daily reward system that gives you runes for playing, so you can rush as much as you want based on the time you've invested.

Whatever works.

Cheers.

 

[Adposatnr]

No, I don't expect you to mana-sit for 16 hours for just 1 hour of exp. I've thought about this idea for a while, and I’ve even implemented part of it in my own low-rate 7.4 Tibia server project, which I’m not ready to reveal just yet.

Unfortunately, since Kay basically told me to "fk off you and your idea," I didn’t want to dive too deep into it, but let’s explore it one more time.

First of all, you're jumping straight into the math, which, in the end, is what matters most, right? How many runes am I going to have for the time spent making them, which ultimately decides how fun the server is. But before jumping into the math, let me explain the concept briefly.

It’s actually very simple, and like I said, I’m not reinventing the wheel here. I’ve seen this in many other servers, and I’m just adding more features to the concept.

You make the runes you need. How? By using the well-known concept of "soulbound" runes, which Medivia implemented in 2018. You can make as many runes as you need, as long as they’re used on the same account they were created on. The big difference is that Medivia only allowed runes made by premium accounts to be traded, cutting off the Venezuelan market, but that's a whole different story.

Let’s give an example of how this would work.

Imagine you’re creating an account on my server. Let’s call it Tibiancas. From the moment you log in, by default, you’ll have the option to create three characters. As always, you can choose the name, gender, and world, but with one difference: you get to choose which one will be the main character. That’s it. The main character will be a normal sorcerer, knight, paladin, or druid you know.

The other two characters will have a different condition by default; they will be suppliers for the main character. Any runes they create can only be used by the main character. Another condition is that these characters cannot be used to kill other characters, but they can be killed, meaning you still have to protect them, feed them, hide them, refill blanks, and so on. They will be stuck at level 15 with promotion forever, and their sole purpose is to supply runes to the main character. You can use them simultaneously with your main and other characters, no problem implementing this in the client.

Kay said this would bring more MC/cheaters. Why? Why would you MC if the runes are worthless for other accounts? You could have two "main" characters, but for what purpose? I don’t see an issue with that since they won’t benefit from MC.

Kay also said it would kill the rune supply from friends (I guess this is a thing in Tibiantis? people give free runes to friends? wow). so how so? You can still use your own runes to heal a friend, cast sio on them, or team hunt to make it worthwhile. What about creatures dropping some runes? What about daily rune rewards based on your level and time spent in the game? (Seen in many other servers.)

Kay also said knights would just use their money on mana fluids. This is indeed a low point. With this system, money would be much less valuable. Why would you grind if you can’t buy runes? Well, mana fluids could be exclusive to the "main character" status on the account.

Kay also mentioned that black market players would still trade characters, money, and equipment... just not runes. Sure, but aren’t runes the biggest issue? What do pay to win junkies as u mention mostly pay for? runes. How did that knight obtain the MPA he sold on the Tibiantis Facebook trade market? With runes bought with real money. How did that team win the war? And so on. This is the games main problem, and I’m 99% sure that CipSoft didn’t anticipate this issue when they implemented the rune system in 2000, unaware that their server population would jump from 400 to 15k+ active players the following year.

So, the benefits I see from implementing this idea:

• Redefine the "buy runes -> go exp -> go war -> repeat" cycle to "if you want to war, put in the same effort as the other guy."
• Make leveling and grinding more interesting by limiting the amount of runes obtainable.
• Create a sub-PvP system where "makers" are still targets but with fewer consequences, giving the frag system a second life.
• Make the game’s economy less important.
• To make skills and knowledge, as well as resource optimization, more valuable within the game.

As Kay said, this is a general idea, a concept, but I’m working on it, inspired by servers I’ve loved. If you’re interested, I can gladly share the list of servers and how they implemented this concept.

So, the maths... I think the math isn’t important for now. It could be one, two, or three "makers" allowed might be more, maybe less.. maybe just one.. We don't know yet. Maybe you can trade runes at a certain level (like at lvl 50 with premium), or maybe there’s a daily reward system that gives you runes for playing, so you can rush as much as you want based on the time you've invested.

Whatever works.

Cheers.

you just create more problems to solve one issue which u still wont solve fully

first somebody can pay vnzl for healing service with these uhs

what if u kill these characters? what they will drop since u have to protect them

and u add huge inflation on top of that

 

[kay]

Unfortunately, since Kay basically told me to "fk off you and your idea,"

That's not what I said, but since it's now become apparent that you are here just to advertise your own server, maybe that would have been the right thing to do.

Kay said this would bring more MC/cheaters.

I said that they would be harder to spot, because it's easier to find that one guy who uses 2 characters when everyone else uses just 1, than to find the guy who uses 3 characters when everyone else uses 2.

I don’t see an issue with that since they won’t benefit from MC.

Of course people could still benefit from multi-clienting, regardless. Little you know, making runes is not the only way to take advantage of having multiple characters online.

Kay also said knights would just use their money on mana fluids.

Once again, that's not what I said. Knights not being able to buy runes is one thing.
The fact that "mastercarders" would still benefit from "mastercarding" is another. They would just buy gold, melt it down into manafluids, and... make runes.

Kay also mentioned that black market players would still trade characters, money, and equipment... just not runes. Sure, but aren’t runes the biggest issue? What do pay to win junkies as u mention mostly pay for? runes. How did that knight obtain the MPA he sold on the Tibiantis Facebook trade market? With runes bought with real money.

What in the Earth are you talking about? You are saying that it's Venezuelan runemakers that make the problem. They don't farm magic plate armors, they will farm gold by killing minotaurs, rotworms, ghouls etc., and then they will sell that gold, which other players can use for their advantage one way or another (e.g. to loot magic plate armor). How do you solve that now? Make gold account-bound as well?

Like I said on the previous page: as long as there is free flow of items, and as long as those items have any use, they will be traded on black market. Your idea is basically to make runes worthless, so they won't be traded anymore. But it only moves that value to other items instead, which will be now more demanded. And as long as they have value... see the above.

Not to mention that the "mastercarders" can still hire others directly to exp, heal, block etc. You're changing the game, so the ways of abusing real money would also change, but you are not gettng rid of the core issue at all.

Besides, your concept does not only seem faulty at so many points, but it also seems even less fun than the original. Not that the original is perfect - we are nostalgic about it, but try to tell that to someone who had never played Tibia. Standing and watching manabar grow will sound utterly silly to them. Even many Tibia players dislike the idea (which is why Cip added runes to the shops). Still, advanced players can skip it in many ways. High levels can give protection to low levels for runes, help the newcommers in quests, make various deals, buy runes for their gold and stuff they loot etc. At the same time, it's a good start for low levels, they can always make some runes to earn money for a better equipment etc. The fact that you have to deal with other players, regardless of your level, adds the whole social layer to it.

What do you propose instead? You disallow players to exchange/buy/loot runes from each other. You're not only taking away the possiblity to buy runes for real money (while still not getting rid of the core issue), but also every other legit way to get runes as well. You're killing player-player interaction, and instead you force everyone to run another client to keep some zombie character online. A character that will never have any other use or purpose, but just to stand online. For what exactly? What's the fun part?

 

[Adposatnr]

For what exactly?

to jusitfy mc easiest way to increase online number on ot

 

[kay]

to jusitfy mc easiest way to increase online number on ot

Yea, might as well just give everyone the number of runes that they would normally create daily. At least you won't force them into completely pointless activity and will spare their CPU.

As pointless as it may also seem, the original concept at least has that social layer to it. It makes it that the "lower social classes" (low levels, newcommers) are needed for the flow of goods. Players can trade runes, exchange them etc., loot them or be looted. But in rinoo's concept there is nothing to it, unless I am missing something? You just have to run another client and keep that zombie character online to get your daily portion of runes, that's all. There is not even the point to kill those characters.

Sure, it sucks that a big part of that original ecosystem has been killed by real money trades. But there's still some of it left. So, why kill it too, when you're NOT getting rid of the "p2w" issue anyway? Even all the players who normally only buy legit runes on in-game trade (yes, they exist) will be forced to grow zombie-brothers instead.

By the way, I am curious about those "many servers" that supposedly implemented this idea. Medivia has soulbound runes, but only those created by facc. Runes created by pacc are still normal, plus they sell runes for real money directly in their store. Dura also has soulbound runes, but only those that you can get from the NPC, from what I've heard, while runes created by players are still normal as well. What else?

 

[Cafumbre]

Im starting to think kays profile pic is actually him irl.
You involve way too many emotions replying to people. Relax. Go eat a banana.

 

[kay]

Im starting to think kays profile pic is actually him irl.
You involve way too many emotions replying to people. Relax. Go eat a banana.

My avatar represents the infinite monkey theorem. In case you don't know, it says that if you gave a number of monkeys typewriters and infinite time (or finite time but infinite number of monkeys), they would eventually write the complete works of Shakespeare. Your post, however, I rate as one monkey and 2 minutes.

 

[Cafumbre]

I think it would take less than a second for your posts. Like minds think alike or something in that way.
All love though my friend hehe.

 

[kay]

- Hurr durr kay doesn't wanna discuss, what a closed mind!!!
<kay proceeds to patiently exchange arguments>
- kay is answering?? hahaha go eat a banana!!

Now I'm not sure if you're a troll or

schizophrenic.

Ether way, please, leave this thread already if you have nothing to say.

 

[Cafumbre]

I said a lot of things. You refused to see my perspective on any one of them.
Many others have done the same thing but you keep being as stubborn as a fucking goat.
I am getting real tired of your self righteousness and your attitude of superiority.

Either you can claim that you keep arguing for your points/thoughts and explaining things or you can insult people in your "not so insulting" ways.
You cant have it both ways and still keep up the appearance of superiority.

Your last sentence pretty much proves your entire attitude towards others and your narcissistic thought patterns.
"if you have nothing to say"
So out of all the text that I wrote, you conclude in the end that I had nothing to say?

I swear talking to you is not even like talking to a wall, its more like bashing your head in with a car stereo expecting it to start giving you the winning lottery numbers for next week.

 

[kay]

Of course I'll usually be skeptical about random ideas thrown at forum (by guys who don't even play the server, but each having their own vision of what's best for it). Still, I addressed your idea in detail. By doing so I gave you a fair chance to prove me wrong and to show everyone that your reasoning was bulletproof. Instead, you decded to shitpost about me, my avatar, and other irrelevant stuff.

Next time try to make valid arguments ad meritum. Focus on the core issue. If you argue that something is possible, don't just say: "I don't know how, but it has to be possible, because everything is possible" - it's not a valid one. Don't claim that "everyone" shares your view. Especially when you can't even backup that, as in reality you don't seem to have convinced anyone in the thread. Don't also repeat over and over that the other side is stubborn for disagreeing with you. Do you honestly believe that people should be changing their mind just for you don't call them stubborn? And most of all, don't go offtopic and don't start shitposting only to play the victim afterwards. It puts in question who's the one taking it too emotionally.

I hope this will help you stay on-topic next time. Otheriwse I'm not going to reply more.

 

[Cafumbre]

We dont neccessarily have to play to be able to see the issues of the server. Sometimes merely observing is enough to notice the flaws.
Did you see anyone complain about pve or pvp? No because you managed to mimic that to perfection. Nobody is denying that.

You never gave me a fair chance to ’prove’ anything since all you did was counter argue that it would be impossible.
I dont really understand why it should be my job to prove anything as the irrefutable proof that its not good for the server is already there.

People do not continue playing the server as they have already achieved everything and there is nothing new to do. This is why they sell characters/runes/gold aside from a merely financial reason.

You also created a server in which it is impossible to maintain without periods of stability and status quo. Nobody can continue fighting for months without requiring periods of hunting as the economy is pretty rough.

This does however present certain players an advantage as if you stay away from pvp you can profit a whole lot in both gaining experience and gold which enables others to funnel real money into aquiring that.
However that is not something that could be fixed as it would cause more problems than it would solve.

I did not say that everyone shares my opinion but I did say that you argue against everyone in the same manner. You explain your perspective in a manner that suits you and after you result to becoming defensive if someone does not accept that.