[UK][7.4] Tibiantis Online

[Adposatnr]

We dont neccessarily have to play to be able to see the issues of the server. Sometimes merely observing is enough to notice the flaws.
Did you see anyone complain about pve or pvp? No because you managed to mimic that to perfection. Nobody is denying that.

You never gave me a fair chance to ’prove’ anything since all you did was counter argue that it would be impossible.
I dont really understand why it should be my job to prove anything as the irrefutable proof that its not good for the server is already there.

People do not continue playing the server as they have already achieved everything and there is nothing new to do. This is why they sell characters/runes/gold aside from a merely financial reason.

You also created a server in which it is impossible to maintain without periods of stability and status quo. Nobody can continue fighting for months without requiring periods of hunting as the economy is pretty rough.

This does however present certain players an advantage as if you stay away from pvp you can profit a whole lot in both gaining experience and gold which enables others to funnel real money into aquiring that.
However that is not something that could be fixed as it would cause more problems than it would solve.

I did not say that everyone shares my opinion but I did say that you argue against everyone in the same manner. You explain your perspective in a manner that suits you and after you result to becoming defensive if someone does not accept that.

you dont have solution but u expect somebody to find one

to even start you will have to ban people on assumption without clear proof and that is a big no for me on ot

 

[rinoo]

you just create more problems to solve one issue which u still wont solve fully

first somebody can pay vnzl for healing service with these uhs

what if u kill these characters? what they will drop since u have to protect them

and u add huge inflation on top of that

I think it's fully solved, so what's missing?

Am I adding inflation to what? I’m actually creating a deflation for gold (which could be a problem or not). Do you mean inflation of characters online? Just simply limit the number of online "main characters." No one is trying to scam the community, lol. Also, I’m not spoiling an actual server that’s going to work this way; we’re just discussing a possible system. There are no marketing intentions at all.

This makes me think it’s probably normal in your culture to exploit whatever weakness your opponent shows and use it to your advantage... like Kay thinking I’m doing free marketing for my server on this thread, or like you thinking I want MCs everywhere just to boost the online numbers and fool newcomers into believing this server is successful. This kind of thinking might be common in your society (Poland, I guess?), but my comment is far from those intentions.

And whats the point of killing those "zombie players" as Kay said? blanks? equipment? kill your enemy supplier? maybe even create a item than you loot from the maker killed that gives you 1/4 of his experience. The intention is not to motivate people to kill those makers but there might be a extra reward for it just to not make it useless, what do you think?

That's not what I said, but since it's now become apparent that you are here just to advertise your own server, maybe that would have been the right thing to do.

Kay, I think you're one of those cases of a guy who's really good at something, but at the same time, you're missing all social skills and think you're constantly under attack. I think there’s a name for people like this. This website is OTland, a place made for Open Tibia creators and users. We’re supposed to talk about OT servers, and that’s exactly what I’m doing. I'm not your opponent for creating an OT, nor am I your enemy.

Also, you know (and I know you know) it’s extremely clear that my intention here was to discuss a possible implementation system for a hypothetical new Tibiantis project in a far-off galaxy. Why not just shut up and use it in my own project? Well, because I think Tibiantis could do it better, since you’ve proven to be extremely effective in bot detection.

There are no dark intentions here, Kay. I just love Tibia, and this community is extremely small. Take it easy, Kay.

to jusitfy mc easiest way to increase online number on ot

You can simply limit it to the main characters online.

By the way, I am curious about those "many servers" that supposedly implemented this idea. Medivia has soulbound runes, but only those created by facc. Runes created by pacc are still normal, plus they sell runes for real money directly in their store. Dura also has soulbound runes, but only those that you can get from the NPC, from what I've heard, while runes created by players are still normal as well. What else?

So now you're curious. There was/is an extremely underrated server in my opinion called originaltibia.com, where the owner implemented something similar to what I'm proposing. Check out his Otland thread. He created a system where you had 3 normal makers placed in a training zone with infinite food and 100% protection, and all runes created by those makers were automatically transferred to the main character. The runes weren't soulbound to the account, but the system was so well-calculated and implemented that there was a very small rune market in the game. It simply wasn't necessary to buy from other players, yet you didn’t have enough to waste. It was a very fun server, and it stayed online for around 5 years.

Well, my system is a bit inspired by Medivia's soulbound runes, Dura's daily rewards, OriginalTibia's maker system, and also another OT I can’t remember right now (I'll check the name later). Punio used to stream it frequently. My "idea" is a customization of all these other creators' ideas.

"Besides, your concept does not only seem faulty at so many points, but it also seems even less fun than the original. Not that the original is perfect - we are nostalgic about it, but try to tell that to someone who had never played Tibia."

This is the only point I’ll give for free. I don't—we don't—know if this would be more fun than the original game. In the end, it feels like all that matters is a bit of nostalgia because, from every technical point, this game is horrible. Yet here we are, 20 years later.

Probably if this is ever implemented, tons of people will complain before even logging into the server to check it out themselves. As usual OTland community woulda kill it even before seeing the light.

We can’t do much for this game, even less with OTland users like you. Thanks for creating Tibiantis, the best 7.4 ever, besides that you are stubborn and squarehead xD.

 

[Adposatnr]

I think it's fully solved, so what's missing?

Am I adding inflation to what? I’m actually creating a deflation for gold (which could be a problem or not). Do you mean inflation of characters online? Just simply limit the number of online "main characters." No one is trying to scam the community, lol. Also, I’m not spoiling an actual server that’s going to work this way; we’re just discussing a possible system. There are no marketing intentions at all.

If you have two mc characters running in background 24/7 you add inflation since rune cost you only blank and food if u have to get them with regular sources e.g buying them from other ppl these ppl have to buy rune spells, promotion they eventually exp and die some mages/paladins will try to minimalise runes wasted by using life rings or rohs/mfs to heal thats not the case if u have basically free runes

on top of that for 2 makers with promo u need 30 bedmages making runes on bedmage is much more expensive as u have to level up these characters, buy spells, houses, pay rent etc and u will most likely buy food which is less efficient than on regular online char

or like you thinking I want MCs everywhere just to boost the online numbers and fool newcomers into believing this server is successful. This kind of thinking might be common in your society (Poland, I guess?), but my comment is far from those intentions.

you have to somehow let people track these characters to solve 1 issue u are now creating next one and probably more in future

also you didnt even thought about this system and how many flaws it might have or what will be dropped by those characters

 

[rinoo]

also you didnt even thought about this system and how many flaws it might have or what will be dropped by those characters

What the hell i'm suppoused to do here? bring you a 40 pages thesis of why this system woulda be the end solution to all existed server problems in 25 years of Tibia history?
"You have not thing about thys system" bro I have, as I said im implementing it partially somewhere insipired by other OT owners, but all this comment came from a recent discussion of how pay to win destroys the server and what could we do to fix it. That's it. I'm not presenting a system with zero problems its just an idea which as always end up been dramatized and destroyed by a it seems a cultural perspective of life that "win whatever takes" seems to be what matters. That's not the point of a forum lol. Bye.

 

[Adposatnr]

What the hell i'm suppoused to do here? bring you a 40 pages thesis of why this system woulda be the end solution to all existed server problems in 25 years of Tibia history?
"You have not thing about thys system" bro I have, as I said im implementing it partially somewhere insipired by other OT owners, but all this comment came from a recent discussion of how pay to win destroys the server and what could we do to fix it. That's it. I'm not presenting a system with zero problems its just an idea which as always end up been dramatized and destroyed by a it seems a cultural perspective of life that "win whatever takes" seems to be what matters. That's not the point of a forum lol. Bye.

if u have thought about this system you would adress most common problems with it

I can assume how you will solve those and depending on path you choose there will be more and more problems

You even stated that you partially implemented it on ur server which is under development

I've thought about this idea for a while, and I’ve even implemented part of it in my own low-rate 7.4 Tibia server project, which I’m not ready to reveal just yet.

im a player and im interested in every low rate 7.4 i love to play them and i wish there would be more of them so you caught my attention and i dont want to deal with people abusing op stuff on server launch i've seen it too often especially on more custom servers

 

[rinoo]

if u have thought about this system you would adress most common problems with it

I can assume how you will solve those and depending on path you choose there will be more and more problems

Well ofc you could track those makers, of course im aware killing those makers wouldn't be so sweet as it is in Tibiantis (which is your especialliy right) but there is middle solutions. I've seen you forcing the retro mechanics at maximun in servers abusing it to the level its mandatory to push it into to a "destructive behavior" issue. Well part of the intention is to reduce as much as possible outside the game trade market. Otherwise, killing, stealing, destroying, scamming, trolling, force game errores more would be still possible as usual to please your typo of player. No worries.

 

[kay]

You never gave me a fair chance to ’prove’ anything since all you did was counter argue that it would be impossible.
I dont really understand why it should be my job to prove anything as the irrefutable proof that its not good for the server is already there.

By providing counter-reasoning I gave you all the chance to prove me wrong, but you don't think it's your "job". Yet, you expect me to change my mind and agree with you. Based on what? "Trust me, bro"? Not wanting to be called "stubborn"?
You're in a huge logical fallacy. Not only you're trying to shift the burden of proof, but also forcing me to work on proving your thesis, rather than mine (sic!). You also commit a number of other fallacies, such as argumentum ad temperantiam, implying that I must agree with you at some point, regardless of the arguments. Because you don't see the urge of providing any valid argument whatsoever, and you even admit that, further discussion is pointless.

So now you're curious. There was/is an extremely underrated server in my opinion called originaltibia.com, where the owner implemented something similar to what I'm proposing. Check out his Otland thread. He created a system where you had 3 normal makers placed in a training zone with infinite food and 100% protection, and all runes created by those makers were automatically transferred to the main character. The runes weren't soulbound to the account, but the system was so well-calculated and implemented that there was a very small rune market in the game. It simply wasn't necessary to buy from other players, yet you didn’t have enough to waste. It was a very fun server, and it stayed online for around 5 years.

You said there were many servers with soulbound runes concept, similar to yours. But when I ask about them, you provide an example of a server where they basically gave everyone 3 bot makers to safely stand in a protection zone, with infinite food, and even automatcally transferring all the runes to their main character... but the runes are not soulbound. Wow.

Let me ask again: what's the actual fun/point of that zombie simulator? One might as well just give everyone free runes or allow unlimited MCs and bots. This way, people won't have much of a reason to buy runes either.
You will probably argue that it's not the same, because it was limited - they gave people some runes, but "not enough to waste". But this only means that buying runes for real money would still give you advantage. Because while others only have some limited stock of runes, not enough to waste, you would have more than that and enough to waste.

In other words, it doesn't solve anything. As @Adposatnr said, normally all the runes must be created by the work of real players. What they did was adding shitload of runes out of nothing, without any work behind them, but that didn't touch the core issue at all.
Of course, that server you mentioned - they didn't count those makers to the online list, right? Right?

You took so many quotes from my post and wrote so much, but for some reason you omitted the most important paragraphs, where I explain the core issue. So once again, where the "p2w" in online games comes from? (1) As long as there are people willing to spend real money to gain advantage over the rest, (2) as long as there is also free flow of items, and (3) as long as those items have any use (and thus value) -> they will be traded on the black market. As long as other players can be effectively helpful in achieving something meaningful, they can also be hired for that service. Old Tibia is a game that does have free flow of goods, and a game in which you are very much dependant on other players.

So how can you get rid of the black market? You have to either stop the free flow of goods and services, make it that players can't exchange them or help each other. But this goes against the whole concept of Tibia as an online sandbox community-oriented game. You can also make everything worthless, items, levels, achievements etc. For instance, people won't trade items on one of those for-fun servers, where everyone has 50 level with unlimited supplies just to fight. But this goes against the concept of an RPG longterm server, where everything is supposed to be meaningful. So it's again that "have a cake or eat a cake" type of dilemma.

That's why you're not "fixing" anything. You're only destroying the in game economy, and creating new issues to think of, nothing else.

 

[rinoo]

You said there were many servers with soulbound runes concept, similar to yours. But when I ask about them, you provide an example of a server where they basically gave everyone 3 bot makers to safely stand in a protection zone, with infinite food, and even automatcally transferring all the runes to their main character... but the runes are not soulbound. Wow.

Let me ask again: what's the actual fun/point of that zombie simulator? One might as well just give everyone free runes or allow unlimited MCs and bots. This way, people won't have much of a reason to buy runes either.
You will probably argue that it's not the same, because it was limited - they gave people some runes, but "not enough to waste". But this only means that buying runes for real money would still give you advantage. Because while others only have some limited stock of runes, not enough to waste, you would have more than that and enough to waste.

In other words, it doesn't solve anything. As Adposatnr said, normally all the runes must be created by the work of real players. They just added shitload of runes out of nothing, without any work behind them, but that didn't touch the core issue at all.
Of course, that server you mentioned - they didn't count those makers to the online list, right? Right?

You took so many quotes from my post and wrote so much, but for some reason you omitted the most important paragraphs, where I explain the core issue. So once again, where the "p2w" in online games comes from? (1) As long as there are people willing to spend real money to gain advantage over the rest, (2) as long as there is free flow of items, and (3) as long as those items have any use (and thus value) -> they will be traded on the black market. As long as other players can be effectively helpful in achieving something meaningful, they can also be hired for that service. Old Tibia is a game that does have free flow of goods, and a game in which you are very much dependant on other players.

So how can you get rid of the black market? You have to either stop the free flow of goods and services, make it that players can't exchange them or help each other. But this goes against the whole concept of Tibia as an online sandbox community-oriented game. You can also make everything worthless, items, levels, achievements etc. For instance, people won't trade items on one of those war servers, where everyone has 50 level with unlimited supplies to fight with no risk. But this goes against the concept of an RPG longterm server, where everything is supposed to be meaningful. So it's again that "have a cake or eat a cake" type of dilemma.

That's why you're not "fixing" anything. You're only destroying the in game economy, and creating new issues to think of, nothing else.

Lol, I'm replying one more time just for sport since this discussion has turned completely pointless.

Again, your comment just reinforces what I said above... your only goal is to win arguments over 150 (now 152) pages at any cost, probably because you lack social skills and are trying to feed your ego.

1. I mentioned this system is inspired by other servers I've played with similarities and differences. One of those is Medivia, Dura, OriginalTibia, and others I don't remember right now, but I’ll look them up later for your ego's sake. It's been 20 years of playing servers, so forgive me for not remembering them all right now.
2. What’s the fun in playing your "Plants vs. Zombies" pay-to-win simulator may I ask? who in their right mind would waste their time on your "grind and pay to win" server? Where's the fun in that? I guess it's all for the nostalgia of Tibia. Guess what? Even I play it.
3. "Having many runes with no effort?" I said you’d still need to feed, protect, and work on them, and the time spent mana sitting would be equivalent to the time you can use those runes for hunting. What’s so hard to get? Why are you so focused on changing the "core issue"? As I’ve mentioned (and this is the last time), it’s not the perfect solution, but it could be interesting to implement in a server like yours (which is how this conversation started), where bot detection is impeccable. Fair makers + organic runes +no bots. Doesn't it sound great?

The exact math of how many runes you'll need to mana sit for hunting/PvP depends on tons of game features that haven’t been decided yet for this hypothetical faraway galaxy Tibiantis server... like rates, loot rate, target audience, niche, and so on.

1. You can still have a black market, just not for runes. That’s what I’m addressing. Thanks for pointing out nothing, lol.
2. Of course, you can still hire a Venezuelan to cast sio and uhs on you. It’s just going to be more organic than buying runes for rl money like in your server.
3. Every new system implementation comes with sacrifices, just like adding "VIP ITEMS WITH MANA REGEN" inflates rune and magic levels. On your server, you can buy premium and sell it in-game (hey! Premium was also soulbound to accounts in 7.4 in case you forgot ), which in your server it sacrifices the game economy and a lot, and so on millons of possible examples.

Now, I’m starting to think that besides being stubborn and aquarehead, you're also not as smart as I thought. You’re just inventing problems for whatever idea or comment is put forward.

"I’m not fixing anything." Well, of course not, because I’m not actually spoiling a server where all of this will be implemented. It’s just an idea, not properly discussed. This discussion will end here or whenever you create this hypothetical far-off galaxy server so we can see for ourselves.

 

[kay]

Again, your comment just reinforces what I said above... your only goal is to win arguments over 150 (now 152) pages at any cost, probably because you lack social skills and are trying to feed your ego.

But it's you calling...

[*]What’s the fun in playing your "Plants vs. Zombies" pay-to-win simulator may I ask? who in their right mind would waste their time on your "grind and pay to win" server? Where's the fun in that? I guess it's all for the nostalgia of Tibia. Guess what? Even I play it.

Nostalgia, as you said. Plus in Tibiantis we work to make sure that behind every character online there is a real human, one for one character. Sadly, some of them play the game to earn money, granted. But they still have to actually play, meaning that you can very much interact with them. In your example runes are made by unkillable zombie characters that don't add anything to the game.

You can still have a black market, just not for runes. That’s what I’m addressing.

You could just remove runes from the game, if you don't want them (and only them) on the black market. What does it solve though? I think that you've lost the actual goal somewhere in the process. Wasn't that to stop the pay2w or make it insignificant?

 

[rinoo]

In your example runes are made by unkillable zombie characters that don't add anything to the game.

So now I guess you are just not reading the replys properly. You can kill this "zombies" and they do add something to the game. They are also need to be put on work manually (thanks to Tibiantis anticheat core).

"You could just remove runes from the game, if you don't want them"

But I do want them you know.

 

[Cafumbre]

By providing counter-reasoning I gave you all the chance to prove me wrong, but you don't think it's your "job". Yet, you expect me to change my mind and agree with you. Based on what? "Trust me, bro"? Not wanting to be called "stubborn"?
You're in a huge logical fallacy. Not only you're trying to shift the burden of proof, but also forcing me to work on proving your thesis, rather than mine (sic!). You also commit a number of other fallacies, such as argumentum ad temperantiam, implying that I must agree with you at some point, regardless of the arguments. Because you don't see the urge of providing any valid argument whatsoever, and you even admit that, further discussion is pointless.


You said there were many servers with soulbound runes concept, similar to yours. But when I ask about them, you provide an example of a server where they basically gave everyone 3 bot makers to safely stand in a protection zone, with infinite food, and even automatcally transferring all the runes to their main character... but the runes are not soulbound. Wow.

Let me ask again: what's the actual fun/point of that zombie simulator? One might as well just give everyone free runes or allow unlimited MCs and bots. This way, people won't have much of a reason to buy runes either.
You will probably argue that it's not the same, because it was limited - they gave people some runes, but "not enough to waste". But this only means that buying runes for real money would still give you advantage. Because while others only have some limited stock of runes, not enough to waste, you would have more than that and enough to waste.

In other words, it doesn't solve anything. As @Adposatnr said, normally all the runes must be created by the work of real players. What they did was adding shitload of runes out of nothing, without any work behind them, but that didn't touch the core issue at all.
Of course, that server you mentioned - they didn't count those makers to the online list, right? Right?

You took so many quotes from my post and wrote so much, but for some reason you omitted the most important paragraphs, where I explain the core issue. So once again, where the "p2w" in online games comes from? (1) As long as there are people willing to spend real money to gain advantage over the rest, (2) as long as there is also free flow of items, and (3) as long as those items have any use (and thus value) -> they will be traded on the black market. As long as other players can be effectively helpful in achieving something meaningful, they can also be hired for that service. Old Tibia is a game that does have free flow of goods, and a game in which you are very much dependant on other players.

So how can you get rid of the black market? You have to either stop the free flow of goods and services, make it that players can't exchange them or help each other. But this goes against the whole concept of Tibia as an online sandbox community-oriented game. You can also make everything worthless, items, levels, achievements etc. For instance, people won't trade items on one of those for-fun servers, where everyone has 50 level with unlimited supplies just to fight. But this goes against the concept of an RPG longterm server, where everything is supposed to be meaningful. So it's again that "have a cake or eat a cake" type of dilemma.

That's why you're not "fixing" anything. You're only destroying the in game economy, and creating new issues to think of, nothing else.

Im going to try one last time before I blow my brains out.

If you simply had a similar concept as tibia did back in the day with 'gamemasters' that would hunt for people trading items you would succeed in removing 50% of the market. Add in the fear factor of getting banned for trading items and you would remove another 30%. Provide incentives for people to report each other when attempting to trade items and you would get another 10-15% there.

It does not remove the issues but it sure as fuck beats having to watch 7 guys play the same character over 3 months and see it grow 50 levels.
Or having 30 vuvuzelas owning 30 guild houses with 10 bedmages in each.
Im sure you've already seen this but aside from runes and characters the third most prominent value in tibiantis is guildhalls lol.

If I was playing I would be fucking pissed that other morons that have no life can just purchase a character and chase me around when I've spent the better part of 2-3 years advancing my character. However I doubt we will ever hear the opinion of those guys as they most likely left a long time ago and the only ones left are the ones that have accepted the server the way it is.

 

[Handicap Ninja]

Listening to the words of Handicap Ninja makes me wonder who the more delusional ones are, the players or the server creators.
I guess both?

call me delusional but i won't sit here making excuses for not playing every old school player's dream

this is what we been waiting for since cip turned us down all those years ago this the 1 we been trying to copy over and over ever since

shit u got to look around and enjoy what u have sometimes or u gonna be one of those who won't realise that till it's long gone

btw: don't blow ur brains out it's 9/11

 

[Adposatnr]

I mentioned this system is inspired by other servers I've played with similarities and differences. One of those is Medivia, Dura, OriginalTibia, and others I don't remember right now, but I’ll look them up later for your ego's sake. It's been 20 years of playing servers, so forgive me for not remembering them all right now.

so look for them please

as medivia use soulbound runes for facc players (and daily runes) as people just mass bot 20 characters on facc to runemake while losing nothing staff was too lazy to track main chars (and it was often pointless) currently u can login on 4 worlds at once from 1 acc so venesuelans just premmy two acc and have 100% legal 8 characters runemaking for them one char sustain pacc +/- they solved mc issue but on every new launch theres tons of cavebotting facc eks

dura got soulbound DAILY RUNES and from few easy quests cuz ppl just abused low lvl quests for ihs, fireballs and hmms (u could get up to 8h manasitting in 1.5h exping new char and doing quests) this caused a lot of problem as when u kill somebody and he got soulbound runes in his bp u cant parcel his loot so u have to literally sort out entire bp during fight also daily runes exist on dura exist for other reason (overexp is one thing as you cant exp around 1.5h per day on minotaurs, dwarf soldiers, rotworms etc after 50lvl or u wont get xp/loot these runes let you exp a bit longer on stronger mobs slowly progressing your character)

originaltibia didnt use soulbound runes but just made it super easy to mc 3 extra chars and let you put them in safe zone to boost online numbers not to fix issue



literally none of those servers tried to solve p2w problem with soulbound runes or letting ppl using additional character in safe zone they had other goals in mind which one did it in out of pure laziness next did it to fight with inflation and easy pg and third one to fake online number


You literally could just add a runemaking table inside houses which u put food and blanks and it store mana then let you choose which rune u want no need for additional character you can even add custom content for improving it from 1 char to 2 or so still wont solve problem tho atleast u wont have 2 runemaker chars which cant do much but u have to feed and protect them sitting on random spots and scouting for ur main char


BTW what if u kill somebody holding 20 bp of those soulbound uhs? you loot blank? gp? because if u do drop something then u can still rmt however if you wont drop anything then you destroy core tibia mechanics with ur new systems

 

[soulado]

No, I don't expect you to mana-sit for 16 hours for just 1 hour of exp. I've thought about this idea for a while, and I’ve even implemented part of it in my own low-rate 7.4 Tibia server project, which I’m not ready to reveal just yet.

Unfortunately, since Kay basically told me to "fk off you and your idea," I didn’t want to dive too deep into it, but let’s explore it one more time.

First of all, you're jumping straight into the math, which, in the end, is what matters most, right? How many runes am I going to have for the time spent making them, which ultimately decides how fun the server is. But before jumping into the math, let me explain the concept briefly.

It’s actually very simple, and like I said, I’m not reinventing the wheel here. I’ve seen this in many other servers, and I’m just adding more features to the concept.

You make the runes you need. How? By using the well-known concept of "soulbound" runes, which Medivia implemented in 2018. You can make as many runes as you need, as long as they’re used on the same account they were created on. The big difference is that Medivia only allowed runes made by premium accounts to be traded, cutting off the Venezuelan market, but that's a whole different story.

Let’s give an example of how this would work.

Imagine you’re creating an account on my server. Let’s call it Tibiancas. From the moment you log in, by default, you’ll have the option to create three characters. As always, you can choose the name, gender, and world, but with one difference: you get to choose which one will be the main character. That’s it. The main character will be a normal sorcerer, knight, paladin, or druid you know.

The other two characters will have a different condition by default; they will be suppliers for the main character. Any runes they create can only be used by the main character. Another condition is that these characters cannot be used to kill other characters, but they can be killed, meaning you still have to protect them, feed them, hide them, refill blanks, and so on. They will be stuck at level 15 with promotion forever, and their sole purpose is to supply runes to the main character. You can use them simultaneously with your main and other characters, no problem implementing this in the client.

Kay said this would bring more MC/cheaters. Why? Why would you MC if the runes are worthless for other accounts? You could have two "main" characters, but for what purpose? I don’t see an issue with that since they won’t benefit from MC.

Kay also said it would kill the rune supply from friends (I guess this is a thing in Tibiantis? people give free runes to friends? wow). so how so? You can still use your own runes to heal a friend, cast sio on them, or team hunt to make it worthwhile. What about creatures dropping some runes? What about daily rune rewards based on your level and time spent in the game? (Seen in many other servers.)

Kay also said knights would just use their money on mana fluids. This is indeed a low point. With this system, money would be much less valuable. Why would you grind if you can’t buy runes? Well, mana fluids could be exclusive to the "main character" status on the account.

Kay also mentioned that black market players would still trade characters, money, and equipment... just not runes. Sure, but aren’t runes the biggest issue? What do pay to win junkies as u mention mostly pay for? runes. How did that knight obtain the MPA he sold on the Tibiantis Facebook trade market? With runes bought with real money. How did that team win the war? And so on. This is the games main problem, and I’m 99% sure that CipSoft didn’t anticipate this issue when they implemented the rune system in 2000, unaware that their server population would jump from 400 to 15k+ active players the following year.

So, the benefits I see from implementing this idea:

• Redefine the "buy runes -> go exp -> go war -> repeat" cycle to "if you want to war, put in the same effort as the other guy."
• Make leveling and grinding more interesting by limiting the amount of runes obtainable.
• Create a sub-PvP system where "makers" are still targets but with fewer consequences, giving the frag system a second life.
• Make the game’s economy less important.
• To make skills and knowledge, as well as resource optimization, more valuable within the game.

As Kay said, this is a general idea, a concept, but I’m working on it, inspired by servers I’ve loved. If you’re interested, I can gladly share the list of servers and how they implemented this concept.

So, the maths... I think the math isn’t important for now. It could be one, two, or three "makers" allowed might be more, maybe less.. maybe just one.. We don't know yet. Maybe you can trade runes at a certain level (like at lvl 50 with premium), or maybe there’s a daily reward system that gives you runes for playing, so you can rush as much as you want based on the time you've invested.

Whatever works.

Cheers.

So… you completely destroyed the entire market, all to stop cheating… which you just dressed up as a new costume called “providers”.

You also completely ignore the growth of a server where mages make runes early to sell to buy promotion and spells. You now further empower paladins to pg since theyre the only ones who can realistically use runes early without waste AND on top of that…. Players have to still mana sit to exp.

Great, you have 2 mcs. Now it takes me 8 hours to hunt for 1. Which means if i literally do not play for 8 hours I will not be capable of hunting. This also means all the non rune heavy spawns will be HEAVILY occupied while the rune heavy spawns remain open and un used.

Kay is a stubborn ked, which in some topics I fully support. In other topics his stubborn attitude is detrimental. On your idea? Hes right. Literally a TERRIBLE idea.

Post automatically merged: Sep 11, 2024

Its literally confirmed every day by your player base.

Post automatically merged: Sep 11, 2024

Im going to try one last time before I blow my brains out.

If you simply had a similar concept as tibia did back in the day with 'gamemasters' that would hunt for people trading items you would succeed in removing 50% of the market. Add in the fear factor of getting banned for trading items and you would remove another 30%. Provide incentives for people to report each other when attempting to trade items and you would get another 10-15% there.

It does not remove the issues but it sure as fuck beats having to watch 7 guys play the same character over 3 months and see it grow 50 levels.
Or having 30 vuvuzelas owning 30 guild houses with 10 bedmages in each.
Im sure you've already seen this but aside from runes and characters the third most prominent value in tibiantis is guildhalls lol.

If I was playing I would be fucking pissed that other morons that have no life can just purchase a character and chase me around when I've spent the better part of 2-3 years advancing my character. However I doubt we will ever hear the opinion of those guys as they most likely left a long time ago and the only ones left are the ones that have accepted the server the way it is.

You cannot enforce out of game actions with any ability to be fair or most importantly accurate.

You are choosing to be smooth brained if you think you can

 

[kay]

If you simply had a similar concept as tibia did back in the day with 'gamemasters' that would hunt for people trading items you would succeed in removing 50% of the market.

I explained to you three times already why gamemasters can't effectively hunt people for trading items for real money. Once again: from the game's point of view it doesn't differ from any other flow of items. The only difference is that someone takes real money for that, but it happens outside the game, and gamemaster only have insight to whatever happens in game. Not only you are incapable of understanding this, but you're now trying to disprove it with an example of a solution from real Tibia, where - guess what - it didn't work at all! I don't know what other tibia you played, but in the one I knew there was literally zero risk or fear when buying items for real money. You just had to transfer that money to the vendor, then you received a parcel - done, no one cares. Unless you advertised that in game of course, but in such case you get banned in Tibiantis as well (even easier than in Tibia).

So now I guess you are just not reading the replys properly. You can kill this "zombies" and they do add something to the game. They are also need to be put on work manually (thanks to Tibiantis anticheat core).

I was referring to that example of "3 makers in PZ". In your concept there's at least a living person assumed to be behind each of those characters. However, other than that, they don't add anything to the game. But those players would've been online in game anyway. The sole purpose of those additional characters is to stand and recover mana, you can't use them for anything else, from what you explained. They won't be socializing or doing anything else at all because of that.

BTW what if u kill somebody holding 20 bp of those soulbound uhs?

Sell them for real money to the guy whom you've just killed, maybe? Since they are completely useless for you, and he urgently needs them (can't get any runes another way) - I guess you could come to a deal.

 

[Adposatnr]

but in the one I knew there was literally zero fear or risk when buying items for real money.

in old times ppl just had to give their acc number and password to buy pacc from somebody

so ppl did so many chargeback/hack scamms sometimes u could get banned if u are unlucky and got caught by gamemaster under fake characters selling you premmy

however it was not a big problem to find trusted sellers, often in same guild no way a company like cipsoft could track acc sharing and trading gold back then



Im playing path of exile and there is ban for real money trading however theres so many trades between players (ppl supply ingame currency for crafters to craft gear and those are often empty trades from different accounts) that over 10 years of playing my friend who is selling all his stuff every league got so far 4 bans two because one jealous person keep reporting him over and over and two other for macros despite doing same rmt stuff

 

[rinoo]

so look for them please

as medivia use soulbound runes for facc players (and daily runes) as people just mass bot 20 characters on facc to runemake while losing nothing staff was too lazy to track main chars (and it was often pointless) currently u can login on 4 worlds at once from 1 acc so venesuelans just premmy two acc and have 100% legal 8 characters runemaking for them one char sustain pacc +/- they solved mc issue but on every new launch theres tons of cavebotting facc eks

dura got soulbound DAILY RUNES and from few easy quests cuz ppl just abused low lvl quests for ihs, fireballs and hmms (u could get up to 8h manasitting in 1.5h exping new char and doing quests) this caused a lot of problem as when u kill somebody and he got soulbound runes in his bp u cant parcel his loot so u have to literally sort out entire bp during fight also daily runes exist on dura exist for other reason (overexp is one thing as you cant exp around 1.5h per day on minotaurs, dwarf soldiers, rotworms etc after 50lvl or u wont get xp/loot these runes let you exp a bit longer on stronger mobs slowly progressing your character)

originaltibia didnt use soulbound runes but just made it super easy to mc 3 extra chars and let you put them in safe zone to boost online numbers not to fix issue



literally none of those servers tried to solve p2w problem with soulbound runes or letting ppl using additional character in safe zone they had other goals in mind which one did it in out of pure laziness next did it to fight with inflation and easy pg and third one to fake online number


You literally could just add a runemaking table inside houses which u put food and blanks and it store mana then let you choose which rune u want no need for additional character you can even add custom content for improving it from 1 char to 2 or so still wont solve problem tho atleast u wont have 2 runemaker chars which cant do much but u have to feed and protect them sitting on random spots and scouting for ur main char


BTW what if u kill somebody holding 20 bp of those soulbound uhs? you loot blank? gp? because if u do drop something then u can still rmt however if you wont drop anything then you destroy core tibia mechanics with ur new systems

so, you’re just repeating the features of the servers I already explained myself. I used them as examples of things I liked and modified for a new system. So?

???????

"Literally none of those servers tried to solve the p2w problem."

(2018-2019) Medivia literally did it. No, it didn’t solve it 100% obviously, but it attacked the black market issue at its core and hurt it a lot. They even forced users to switch from x32 to x64, among other things that killed the rune famrs (it was hillarious). I saw tons of rune farms vanish forever. I saw it with my own eyes xD. As for the other two servers, they weren’t intended to solve p2w thanks again for pointing out nothing, but they still brought cool ideas. I still don’t see why this is so hard to understand or why you and Kay are so enthusiastic about criticizing the examples I gave. I guess the point is to win, as usual. I love poland. Ah other intresting server was Valoria Online. Another underrate masterpiece with a unique rune system.

I don’t know about your rune table, but I prefer having potential makers who still need to put in manual work with no cheating, who need to be protected from those who don’t want to see progress in your main character. Maybe there’s some other reward we haven't decided on yet, but throwing more ideas into this is pointless since Kay from comment 1 decided this idea is terrible thereby inventing and adding hypotetical problems to a hypotetical system seems to be the intention.

What if you loot 20 bps of soulbound runes from a maker attached to someone elses main? You just take what matters to you as usual... blanks, food and money?... and let the rest rot or throw it into the water.

 

[kay]

"Literally none of those servers tried to solve the p2w problem."

(2018-2019) Medivia literally did it. No, it didn’t solve it 100% obviously, but it attacked the black market issue at its core and hurt it a lot. They even forced users to switch from x32 to x64, among other things that killed the rune famrs (it was hillarious). I saw tons of rune farms vanish forever. I saw it with my own eyes xD

They didn't "solve" it, nor intended to. They just killed most of the black rune market by adding runes to their own store and NPC shops.

 

[rinoo]

They didn't "solve" it. They just killed the rune market by adding runes to their own store.

They killed the black market*.

They implemented their own rune store instead, also with they implemented many other things what made me quit for the instance but they solved the black market (for their own business interest and not for the players sake, 100% agree) making it more fair and transparent. They openly declare the server pay to win, you take it or leave it. So I dont want this... my idea is transparenting the rune supplies also but keeping it as much as possible "effort matters over p2w"

 

[Adposatnr]

(2018-2019) Medivia literally did it.

nope they moved problem of runemakers to cavebotters which is even worse because those botters take legit players spawns and level up characters which can be sold later

why runemake if u have to pay 650k-700k (in legacy) or 3kk-5kk (prophecy and other h-rate servers) per month to maintain pacc if u can just cavebot ek on facc and make more money than while runemaking? they even let players use two characters at once and even if u premmy one u can just login on 4 worlds 2 characters each and runemake fully legal with 8 characters at once

they didnt solve issue they just moved problem to other thing while letting people mc fully legal just with extra steps

What if you loot 20 bps of soulbound runes from a maker attached to someone elses main? You just take what matters to you as usual... blanks, food and money?... and let the rest rot or throw it into the water.

so in most cases u fight with someobdy over spawn lets say ab castle u both have 20lvls and both waste a lot of runes and if u eventually win u loot useless runes u can throw to water... such a great idea indeed

They killed the black market*.

no market isnt killed at all i just bought few weeks ago 5k medivia coins from one dude for half of their store price and it took me few minutes to find somebody hoarding extra coins and that wasnt even vnzl guy theres like 20 posts every month on facebook groups and there are dedicated discords to trade stuff on medivia

ppl are doing services for xping on characters here and its common there are known and legit players who will play ur character for days to finish faction tasks lmao