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Book of Lies - Joshwa's cynical game.

xinn

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This post is an answer to @Joshwa534's topic: https://forum.theoxserver.com/threads/xinns-corruption-discrimination.570/.

First of all I would like to say sorry for all the grammar errors in that wall of text. It would be great if you could read the whole statement - I adress there all lies from OX team who tries to do a buzz around them, divide Otland's community or even bring @Mark and otlands moderators to their drama. I believe this is a part of their planned campaign since lies&rumours about me/list or otland started prior to the start of their server. In opposition to Joshwa534 I will be posting screenshots and proofs. Not just empty words. However, if you don't have time or you simpy don't really care, here is a rather short tldr:

- OXteam really messed up, and I'm not talking about their start where oxserver should change the name to oxrestarter. Banishment was automatic and justified. They were informed almost 40h prior to banishment that their login server is breaking the rules, they were given a time to fix the problem or delete the server from the list until they fix their login server. They didn't do that, and they got automatically banned just like I warned them. What was the reason of the banishment?
Their login server was returning the last known number of players online even when they server crashed and was offline. Such server should return the information that it is offline not the last known number of players online which is totally unfair for other server owners. In the moment of the banishment they were returning 914 players online and were second on the list while their server was in fact OFFLINE.

Here is a proof, screenshot of send email to Syntax:
GTqMJNv.png


Joshwa made a strong statement, however don't fall to his cynical game. Everything he and his team do is to make a huge buzz around the server. All he wants is free publicity. He manipulates and lies. Everything could be solved in a respectful manner, despite their fault, however he decided to go on a war. Lets start with a timeline to this war topic.

1) OX server starts.
2) OX server crashes and sends fake information about their online status. Instead of sending that the server is offline (because it crashed) it sends that there are 613 players online.
3) I see that, deactive server for 24h and send information to @Syntax.
4) The first post from their CM here. He lies about the banishment and throws allegations on us here: https://otland.net/threads/im-banned-from-otserverlist.243915/#post-2369477.
5) I address this post here where I explain the whole situation about the banishment: https://otland.net/threads/im-banned-from-otserverlist.243915/#post-2369626
6) Syntax answers and talks some more lies here. https://otland.net/threads/france-t...6-2016-15-00-cest.243552/page-30#post-2369658
As I've emailed you before we weren't sending a fake status, the online list was cached due to a crash (the online list wasn't reset).
This is a lie. Syntax answered my email however they did nothing to fix the problem and haven't deleted the server from the list to avoid banishment. He didn't send the email BEFORE they started to send fake status (Why even you think it's ok to send an email saying "we fake status don't ban us"). I was the one who started the conversation and send them a warning.
Our first priority wasn't to check and clear the online list during this crash. I get your system is automated though, but we weren't down with the cached count very long.
So you could delete the server from the list if 24h weren't enought to fix your login server. You didn't do that. You wanted a free publicity and now your whole team cries that our automatic tools banished your server. This is exactly why I've sent that warning.
Also it was cached at 612~ we've had much more on average, I think the term spoof is an exaggeration.
Another LIE. 613 players online were in a moment when I send you a warning. WHen your server got banned you had 913 players online.
7) I haven't yet answered to this topic, I didn't say anything about keeping the banishment or ubanning. However, they started all that drama. They didn't wait for my answer, they didn't try to reach me. They started a war. That's why I think they are cynical and it's just part of their campaign.

Lets address some more lies.

We launched our BETA last year (April 2015) and before we were even live, you banned us for "spoofing player count". This year, you've done it again. We officially launched our server June 18th, 2016 at 10:00 CEST and within a few hours, you banned us again for 24 hours for "spoofing player count". The following day, June 19th, 2016, you enforced a 30 day ban against us for "spoofing player count".
I believe you already know why they got banned with their live server so there is no need to repeat the text. About the beta server here comes another cynical manipulation. He mentioned that the server got automatically banned but he didn't mentin that it was unbanned THE SAME DAY after Syntax contacted me. I didn't do any problems and explained to Syntax why our system banned the server (huge number of players on the server without history added from the account without any history). More info about it is here: https://otland.net/threads/the-ox-server-pre-banned.231046/#post-2229711
And here is a screenshot of what Syntax said then about that post and whole situation:
brOPfYL.png

The post is here if you want to check it: https://otland.net/threads/the-ox-server-pre-banned.231046/#post-2230138

My team's reputation alone should hold some validity against your claims of spoofed player counts. We are the administrators of (...) Do you really think that you can attempt to shame us, call us liars about our player count and ban us without some sort of repercussion while holding absolutely zero proof? Do you honestly think people of our position would actually try to achieve any benefit on your list, whatsoever, by faking player counts?
I believe that your team's reputation is 0 right now and "absolutely zero proofs" turned into wall of proofs.

We are not the only server you've done this to Xinn and we won't be the last. You can either work with us, or against us, and currently you're choosing to risk your reputation by targeting our server.
I didn't target any server. There were and there are numerous competitors on the list which even had higher number of players online than ox or even Hexera. Why I didn't target them? Why Thronx, Shadowcores or Gunzodus weren't banned? Because everything about that servers were ok. Why aurera, fortera, premiera are on the list? They even had or have more players online than Hexera or Hexura? Why? Because I'm totally fine about competition. It's just false accusation. Another lie in our book of lies.

Furthermore, we will not support https://otland.net/ or anyone else that is openly engaged with Xinn and his corruption until this is resolved. Mark can speak with us directly if he has any input about the situation, or his involvement with Xinn, however the dedicated forum space here on OTLand speaks volumes already. There have been more than enough claims on these forums about Xinn's corruption in the past and not a single flinch from Xinn or OTLand. OTLand's staff deletes threads, bans users and sweeps it under the rug.
And this part is so low. Bringing Mark into it, otland's moderators or trying to boycott this community, a community from which YOU TOOK YOUR SERVER is pure hypocrisy. OXserver is based on this communities work. They use TFS and now they come here and wants to boycott it?

OTServlist countdown is ridiculously overpriced, and although we can afford it, we're not paying it.
Xinn is taking advantage of his monopoly and gouging server owners.
If it was so overpriced we wouldn't have reserved dates for 1 or 2 months in advance and so many returning clients. And here I want to address some rumours about the otservlist advertisement. I've never said that I will not sell an advertisement to OX. Actually even If he tried to buy a countdown, I wouldnt be able to sell it since Ryan reserved that date like 2 months earlier. Also, I don't really think Im gouging anyone. Actually I think you are gouging your players. Why? Lets get some facts about oxserver:
1) You charge your players for premium/items while your deliver no content and poor stability.
2) You describe your server as 10.95 while you are missing key features such as Oramond, Roshamuul.
3) You let your players CLONE ITEMS and KEEP THEM. Yes this is funny. Your CM's bashed a guy who said that he cloned Steel Helmets. Of course EVERYONE could clone ANYTHING because of how badly you managed to handle the crashes. You didn't do a full rollback and you let your players keep cloned items. Who knows how many CCs were duped. I think every developer here knows about how it works so there is no need to go into the details. If it's needed, sure I can explain it.
 
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More, because of 10k character limit in 1 post.

---

I will also handle some more rumours which came from OX community.
HEXERA IS DDOSING
No, we didn't ddos anyone, nor Ryan from Classicus did (i've seen such allegation on the forum as well). Actually OX server wasn't ddoses. The lags and freezes came from the engine bug not from the ddos. You don't fix ddos by restarting your game server. In case of the DDOS players can't move but monsters will move anyway. And this is something which I'm sure OX players noticed. The players weren't only the ones freezing but the whole engine freezed which simply excludes DDoS.

Most imporant thing for me. Very personal.
@Joshwa534, you threw some HUGE allegation about me. You called me corrupt which is a VERY strong word. Actually as an administrator of such a huge community I'm getting emails where someone tries to pay me to ban someone or pay me to get unbanned every week. I'm bashing such people because corruption digusts me. So here is my personal message to you. You gave me 24 hours to unban your server, you called me corrupt. I give you 24 hours TO PROVE YOUR WORDS. You said that there are a lot of proves here on otland that I'm corrupted. SHOW ME any screenshot of me taking ANY MONEY for exluding someone from otservlist, for banning, unbanning, allowing to fake players for money or anything like that. If you fail to do that I will permanently ban your server out of the list. The whole community can help you and if you try to send any fake document, I will answer with PUBLIC team viever session where I prove that such transaction is non-existant and since I don't really like to waste my time on nothing, everyone spreading such a strong allegation will be banned (of course after I prove my point). I will be totally transparent about it to show what a cynical and lieing person you are. Game on.

Also like @Chechlowski said:
if you with intention or without intention send a false player count number to OTServlist you will banned according the rules, just like everyone else. You cannot expect to be threatened differently just because of your position in OpenTibia and Tibia.
This is really low to break rules and expect to be threathened differently. It just shows what kind of person you are.

UPDATE
If you would like to see Mark's reply to all that drama it can be found here:
https://otland.net/threads/book-of-lies-joshwas-cynical-game.243951/page-3#post-2370054
 
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In case of the DDOS players can't move but monsters will move anyway. And this is something which I'm sure OX players noticed. The players weren't only the ones freezing but the whole engine freezed which simply excludes DDoS.

Why you think its DDos? Even having 100 ppl try to log in at the same time could cause same problem.
And by the looks of it lot of ppl wanted log in on the clock.
Maybe something locked their IP due to this hence they cant log in again.

Well anyway, I hope the lag is caused by hardware and not software. Looking forward too see @Damon life thread.
Well, didn't want to be rude but I was 90% certain their code is being the problem.
When you have seen their livestream of codes, you can see that never-ending spaghety.

Its funny how almost all high player count servers claim that they have been ddosed when their server crashes.

Anyway If i had to choose between Xinn or Ox team I would choose xinn.
So much drama.
Make a poll xD
 
Xinn there are mobs like deeplings, hive, grimevale. This guy was talking about being unable to team hunt here due to low lvl/need to do world change. Only lack of rosha/oramond/otherworld but its cool those mobs are op (still u can hunt rosha mobs in teleport in dara)
 
hm, Intresting post. idk what to comment about this. I hope this get's solved out. =)
 
Good to see both sides of the story now. However it will need some time for people to work out all this provided information (from both parties) and create an opinion.

There is a quote I always think of, when it comes to a clash between two parties in a forum and both providing "proof" of each others guiltyness:

Hidden in truths lie lies, hidden in lies hides the truth.
 
@Damon: I'm sorry but what kind of proof you are talking about? Joshwa didn't show ANY proof to his allegations. It's just empty words. On the other hand mine proofs are easy to verify, since I use OX team members post as a source of it ;)
 
page sucks because it should automatically show the status of the server.
You know nothing. It shows automatically the status of the server however we get the information from the servers, we query them and they return information that they are online and have X players online or they don't return anything which means that the server is offline. In OX scenario, their server WAS OFFLINE but they KEPT informing us that "OUR SERVER IS ONLINE, WE HAVE OVER 900 PLAYERS SHOW US ON THE TOP OF THE LIST". You get it now?
 
@Damon: I'm sorry but what kind of proof you are talking about? Joshwa didn't show ANY proof to his allegations. It's just empty words. On the other hand mine proofs are easy to verify, since I use OX team members post as a source of it ;)
It is true, that you are indeed posting "facts" in terms of posts. However what @Joshwa534 mentions in his post isn't completly wrong either.
 
@Damon: Do you mind telling me which part is true? The only one I found is the one where he says that I'm owner of otservlist ;)
 
@xinn I would like to know how the network connection between your page and a game server is handled, if you gave us a bit more insight on how you gather data (in which interval etc.) then such issues could probably be solved a lot easier.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not implying here the fault is at your webpages side it's the opposite...
If you send a cached ammount of players through the network without checking for the validation of your gameserver is in some way spoofing, as I do not see a reason as to why not update it live (as login and game server have to be connected anyway) so you can say it's ox's teams fault for not fixing that when xinn told them to do so in order to get them unbanned.
 
@xinn I would like to know how the network connection between your page and a game server is handled, if you gave us a bit more insight on how you gather data (in which interval etc.) then such issues could probably be solved a lot easier.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not implying here the fault is at your webpages side it's the opposite...
If you send a cached ammount of players through the network without checking for the validation of your gameserver is in some way spoofing, as I do not see a reason as to why not update it live (as login and game server have to be connected anyway) so you can say it's ox's teams fault for not fixing that when xinn told them to do so in order to get them unbanned.
https://otland.net/threads/how-server-lists-works.243425/
 
@Damon: Do you mind telling me which part is true? The only one I found is the one where he says that I'm owner of otservlist ;)
I think you should provide a post how you stop counting that shit. Because if a server crashes it cannot update the table players_online which results in that it says blablba. (I think so, xD idk how the tfs engine or otservlist.org works)
 
I think you should provide a post how you stop counting that shit. Because if a server crashes it cannot update the table players_online which results in that it says blablba. (I think so, xD idk how the tfs engine or otservlist.org works)
It seems that their server is sending status stuff through the login server, so unless login server is down it'll keep sending the status doesn't matter if the game server is online or not.
 
@Evil Hero:
If you send a cached ammount of players through the network without checking for the validation of your gameserver is in some way spoofing, as I do not see a reason as to why not update it live (as login and game server have to be connected anyway) so you can say it's ox's teams fault for not fixing that when xinn told them to do so in order to get them unbanned.
Exactly this! They could also delete the server from the list until they fix the problem. Instead they wrote such a topic.

Every OpenTibiaServer has something called "status protocol". We use it to gather information about the server. It's based on trust since we "BELIEVE" that a server returns a valid information. However, we do some tests on our side to detect and automatically ban spoofing servers. Some of the tests are based on math (I don't know how to descrive it, we use math to check the probality of spoofing, for example: Benford's Law), some are more complex and checks for spoofing patterns. There are also prevention bans to keep the list clean (for example when a new server without any history is posted from the account without any history). This lets us fight no-ip server spam which was happening during the first months of otservlist. Those are the mainly "unfair" bans however, they are solved out as soon as I get an email. Manually banning such servers was pointless because the attacker was changing the IP and was adding the server under the new IP with of course fake number of players. I don't really want to go more into the details how we find spoofers because it gives an edge to the spoofers.
 
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