Dishonesty in the OTS community (starting off with the OTS Septera/Nostalria)

[e.e]

@ond @SepteraOfficial and others/everyone else:
What do you think should be done in general about players, OTS owners, and anyone else lying, cheating, spoofing, corruption (for example GMs banning a player just for killing their regular char, creating 100x ssa's for own chars, etc), etc?
Ond in particular: You said things like there will always be liars, that I should stop focusing on others - just focus on myself, that I'm making too big of a case from nothing (Septera said this as well), etc.
I've been wondering ever since you said that: What is your solution though? What do you think should be done about it? And what specifically do you think I did wrong with this thread, or do you just think that all attempts at trying to create positive change is "a waste of time"?
Since both of you took the time to post in this thread more than once I'm sure you're both interested in showing me exactly what I did wrong now that I'm asking for it, so you can teach me not to waste my time next time, and so your posts actually had a purpose, right? I hope you will anyways

General: Updated my signature.

@eldera
I laughed for like 15 minutes..
I don't know if it's less funny since it's already xKrazyx's avatar, but I thought it was even more funny for some reason, maybe because I didn't notice it was funny (just goofy) before when I only saw the small avatar version.
Anyway thank you, some humor was really needed here, lol.

 

[Worr]

Ond in particular: You said things like there will always be liars, that I should stop focusing on others - just focus on myself, that I'm making too big of a case from nothing (Septera said this as well), etc.
I've been wondering ever since you said that: What is your solution though? What do you think should be done about it? And what specifically do you think I did wrong with this thread, or do you just think that all attempts at trying to create positive change is "a waste of time"?

What is this positive change that you're trying to make? Even if you accomplish everything you set out to do with this thread, I can only see regression as the outcome, e.g people leaving the ot community and less servers to play. Focusing on yourself, like @ond said, is about making something productive – creating something.

I stumbled over this post by one of the gamemasters on 36.hopto.org. Now keep in mind if you didnt' play at the time (looking at your registration date), that the server was like the most famous server of all time in the oldschool community. It was liked by many. Still, lets take a look:

yeah there was soo many corrupt gms on that ot haha, kicking anubis and nemtor for their friends

Example of being productive, i.e a positive change:

• @ond creating his own war server. It's like adding something positive instead of pointing out something negative.

Example of not being productive:

• Trying to get the server shut down, removed, punished etc. Even if one accomplishes that, nothing productive comes out of it.

 

[e.e]

@Worr
Ok, so you seriously think nothing should be changed about corruption and that literally nothing good can come out of getting rid of corruption. Interesting. I've gotta say that's a new perspective I've never heard of before.
Would you say the same about RL? Nothing productive can come out of putting criminals; rapists, murderers, corrupt politicians/businessmen/etc that takes bribes etc in exchange for unethical services, in jail?
Or what about getting rid of certain terminal and infectious diseases (for example the Black Pox)?
All unproductive acts?

 

[Worr]

@e.e I'm asking you: What is the positive change you're talking about? (as opposed to being productive and leading by example, i.e if you want something in the community then you create that in your own server). I'm not going to respond to you rephrasing whatever I say. I'm only intersted in how you impact the community positively.

 

[Lyky]

@e.e
Well, in all - all; what people do on their own OTS is not mine business, and shouldn't be yours either - as its their freedom, their world to make. If you do not like it, don't play there - its that simple.
Sure some GM may be as you say corrupt, unethical etc; but in the end its the owner's responsibility, and choice.

From what I'm seeing most, some ots's are overly attacked (sometimes with fake, untrue statements) as they are/seem to be in direct competition with others ots's. How would you protect that? As we are talking about public image here, aren't we. OTLand shouldn't look at enforcing, or make choices for the players; It should be players choice, and if they choose wrong - well they'll learn or they won't.

Now IT IS good to talk about it, publicly. Educate the players, but i doubt many of the players actually sit on OTLand - most would be devs, scripters, mappers etc (few players, in all) Thus how would you reach out to the players.

How do you keep it accountable?
@xinn probably would be able to enforce accountability through paypal verification or some other methods; but is it correct stance? Sure that would get rid of most notorious cash cow OTS that rig stuff or are made for quick buck every week/month or so... But there are also decent OTS's and owners without access to paypal or any other form; and Xinn would like loose people over that - so it may not be correct approach to solve anything at all. Thus I am thinking/leaning more to vote cast system built in with maybe comment section on their vote, and something to prevent from bots, and couple nasty people from abusing it.

But that's are just my thoughts, certainly it would make things easier for both players, and owners. (at least the legit ones.)

/btw who gives a flying fck that some ots is saying they have real tibia formulas; either you enjoy their game or you don't... they doubtfully lied about it - that's how they saw tibia formulas. Instead of attacking them as such - i recommend showing them tibicams from those versions and creating exactly same character in their ots. ~ comparing formulas. That would get you furthest in those kinds of talk. Constructive, not negative & destructive.

 

[e.e]

@e.e I'm asking you: What is the positive change you're talking about?

Getting rid of corruption etc.

I'm not going to respond to you rephrasing whatever I say. I'm only intersted in how you impact the community positively.

I wasn't rephrasing what you said, I was simply asking for clarification.
The only way I can answer your question according to your standards is by first knowing what your standards are, so I asked.

@e.e
Well, in all - all; what people do on their own OTS is not mine business, and shouldn't be yours either - as its their freedom, their world to make.

Generally in law and society we make the distinction between Private and Public life for this reason.
You're free to walk around naked, fart as much as you want, masturbate etc in your own private sphere, but not in public.
Don't you think there's such a thing as public responsibility?

If you do not like it, don't play there - its that simple.
Sure some GM may be as you say corrupt, unethical etc; but in the end its the owner's responsibility, and choice.

Sure, but why should I not be allowed to inform other players as well of what happened so that they're better informed about what kind of server they're playing on and don't have to experience for themselves days later that for example their char gets deleted as well for accidentally killing GM's regular char?

From what I'm seeing most, some ots's are overly attacked (sometimes with fake, untrue statements) as they are/seem to be in direct competition with others ots's. How would you protect that?

Sure.
What you do is that you allow other people to criticize other people's critiques first of all, you have already seen plenty of that in this thread, most people here have disagreed with me, sometimes unreasonably and sometimes harshly, other times with some kind of reason or argument.
And secondly you inform people about biases and about how to understand evidence and that they should expect evidence before they're convinced of something.

OTLand shouldn't look at enforcing, or make choices for the players; It should be players choice, and if they choose wrong - well they'll learn or they won't.

Well, first off they already make enforcements, like you have to follow the rules, and there's guidelines for different sub-forums, so for example in the advertisement sub-forum you're supposed to always post a certain list of information about your OT.
But second of all, it doesn't have to be enforced. All I'm asking for is the same opportunity to share information about OTS from a player perspective just like OTS owners are allowed to post information about their own server (currently even if they're completely lying).
In other words, right now the situation is like this: OTLand allows OT owners to lie all they want about their OT, but they forcefully disallow players to write their opinion, experience, or to expose the lies of any OT owner.
So the free speech of OT owners are enforced, but not the free speech of players.

Now IT IS good to talk about it, publicly. Educate the players, but i doubt many of the players actually sit on OTLand - most would be devs, scripters, mappers etc (few players, in all) Thus how would you reach out to the players.

They need to hear about the servers from somewhere.

How do you keep it accountable?
@xinn probably would be able to enforce accountability through paypal verification or some other methods; but is it correct stance? Sure that would get rid of most notorious cash cow OTS that rig stuff or are made for quick buck every week/month or so... But there are also decent OTS's and owners without access to paypal or any other form; and Xinn would like loose people over that - so it may not be correct approach to solve anything at all.

I don't think xinn can do anything about this problem.
We just need better more nuanced platforms where the community itself is able/allowed to balance things out.
There will always be corrupt people trying to cheat the system, bribe people, etc, but this can be minimized through community efforts. Right now it's more like maximized imo.

Thus I am thinking/leaning more to vote cast system built in with maybe comment section on their vote, and something to prevent from bots, and couple nasty people from abusing it.

I completely agree with this, this is what I registered OTW for. The thing is it's impossible to completely stop people from abusing any system like I said earlier, but it can be minimized, and I think my platform will be one step in the right direction.

But that's are just my thoughts

Most of it seemed fairly reasonable to me.

/btw who gives a flying fck that some ots is saying they have real tibia formulas; either you enjoy their game or you don't... they doubtfully lied about it - that's how they saw tibia formulas. Instead of attacking them as such - i recommend showing them tibicams from those versions and creating exactly same character in their ots. ~ comparing formulas. That would get you furthest in those kinds of talk. Constructive, not negative & destructive.

I completely disagree, I don't think helping a cheater is positive or constructive, but you're entitled to your opinion.

 

[Worr]

@e.e That doesn't seem to mean anything of substance. As with the removed posts from the advertisement thread, you're just rephrasing something (interpreting it differently). Case in point:

@Worr
Ok, so you seriously think nothing should be changed about corruption and that literally nothing good can come out of getting rid of corruption. Interesting. I've gotta say that's a new perspective I've never heard of before.
Would you say the same about RL? Nothing productive can come out of putting criminals; rapists, murderers, corrupt politicians/businessmen/etc that takes bribes etc in exchange for unethical services, in jail?
Or what about getting rid of certain terminal and infectious diseases (for example the Black Pox)?
All unproductive acts?

I don't see how this relates to anything we're talking about. That's why I'll ask you again: How will you objectively, in a concrete way, impact the community positively with your suggested changes?No vague bullshit like "I will end corruption." Give me a hypothetical before and after scenario where you made a positive impact.

 

[Lyky]

Generally in law and society we make the distinction between Private and Public life for this reason.
You're free to walk around naked, fart as much as you want, masturbate etc in your own private sphere, but not in public.
Don't you think there's such a thing as public responsibility?

Own Tibia Server, sure public is allowed to enter their worlds; But its theirs not the public.
I.E. If they want to walk naked they should be able; Since its their land, not the public land.
You should compare each OTS as us law views land owners - but maybe with even more power to land owner, since its not real life. (I am indeed surprised no1 made a Porn Tibia Server, just for kicks.)

Sure, but why should I not be allowed to inform other players as well of what happened so that they're better informed about what kind of server they're playing on and don't have to experience for themselves days later that for example their char gets deleted as well for accidentally killing GM's regular char?

That's why people are allowed to excersize their free speech, on forums like otland, and I encourage it.

I don't think xinn can do anything about this problem.
We just need better more nuanced platforms where the community itself is able/allowed to balance things out.
There will always be corrupt people trying to cheat the system, bribe people, etc, but this can be minimized through community efforts. Right now it's more like maximized imo.

He owns, and developed otservlist "all the base belongs to him", as he can do whatever he wants - since its his.

I completely disagree, I don't think helping a cheater is positive or constructive, but you're entitled to your opinion.

I'm amazed how much you care about something, that you really shouldn't. Its not like he's selling you the game, and you are buying it - "false advertising".
(if we take the sms 'shop' or whatever they call it; In law it is not viewed as actual shop. Instead a donation, read up the T&C before you donate.)

 

[e.e]

@e.e That doesn't seem to mean anything of substance.

That statement itself has no substance... You're not explaining yourself or having an argument, just stating generic things like this above "that doesn't have any substance". "I'm not gonna answer you". "You're just rephrasing what I said". "Stop being negative". "Be constructive". And never explaining yourself or what you mean.
If you just wanna whine and troll like this all day then go ahead though, it's you it looks bad on, not that you have any capacity for shame - it certainly doesn't look like you do.

I don't see how this relates to anything we're talking about. That's why I'll ask you again: How will you objectively, in a concrete way, impact the community positively with your suggested changes?No vague bullshit like "I will end corruption." Give me a hypothetical before and after scenario where you made a positive impact.

First we'd have to establish what is a positive change. You seem to be pretty clearly saying that if you "remove" something then it's a negative act, even if it's removing a virus, or removing an illness, or removing a rapist or a criminal.
I asked you to clarify and you just said "don't rephrase what I said (don't ask me questions that makes me have to think or use my brain!), I'm not gonna answer!".
That's a very unhelpful attitude first of all, but it also removes the possibility of me giving you a satisfactory answer since you don't believe that removing something, which is what I had in mind (removing corruption), to be a positive act.
In any normal discussion you would simply have been removed a long time ago for trolling/refusing to answer/having a really bad attitude, but it's kinda funny to see you clown hard trying desperately to cheat hard enough to score a few cheap points

Own Tibia Server, sure public is allowed to enter their worlds; But its theirs not the public.

It's their software and server, but they're also running a business, even if they don't like to admit it, as they take money in exchange for items/services, and even if they didn't offer any items/services they still earn money from donations, so the more players they get the more money they earn = practically a business.
But even if they didn't have a donation page or anything, they still offer their service with full public access, and their server is not in the private sphere unless they host it privately (and without any cost).
If you want a clearer answer you'd need to get a lawyer over here, I'm not one, and I'm pretty sure you're not one either, but you're pretty clearly wrong if you were to claim that a server is private property and you can do anything on it just because you rent or own it, and I'm pretty sure on a private property you still can't stand on the balcony and expose your nude body all day to everyone if people can see you either.
There are still rules and laws applying, like you can't play music too loud if you live near other people, etc. You already know all or most of this, so...

I mean, let me try to make one clear distinction before moving on to the next part:
You can probably do anything you want to the server within certain limits (like not hosting illegal content etc), but you can't do whatever you want to the players on the server, for example it's still illegal to be racist to your players, or to harm their computer (for example if the client you host has a vulnerability in it that you exploit), etc, etc.
So you definitely still have a certain public responsibility as a server owner from a legal standpoint, and the moral grounds are pretty obvious as well, I'll argue them with you if you have some interesting argument, but I'm getting a bit bored with explaining basic stuff over and over again

I.E. If they want to walk naked they should be able; Since its their land, not the public land.

Nope, it's not private land, and I'm pretty sure that even if you invite someone on your private property you still can't just suddenly come out from a room completely nude to any stranger you've invited in, they could probably report or sue you for something like indecent behavior or psychological damage or whatever the actual legal terms are, again I'm not a lawyer and probably neither are you, so we probably shouldn't even be discussing law to begin with.

You should compare each OTS as us law views land owners - but maybe with even more power to land owner, since its not real life. (I am indeed surprised no1 made a Porn Tibia Server, just for kicks.)

You'd have to use disclaimers/18+ years old agreement stuff to not get sued I think
Again, public responsibility Imagine everywhere you walked with your 5 years old son or daughter there was hardcore porn images painted on the walls, on the cars, on the shops, on the streets...
Or every private property in existence, because "they're allowed to do anything with their private property". And porn sounds coming from every speaker everywhere.
What a world that would be...

That's why people are allowed to excersize their free speech, on forums like otland, and I encourage it.

You think they are? I'm not so sure. I had to fight to keep this thread, and I'm a little worried all the time that it's gonna get deleted at any point if I trigger anyone. You can see many examples of triggered snowflakes in this thread's history even before I said anything that could be construed as disrespectful at all, and I've still been pretty respectful so far
So I know it doesn't take a lot to trigger people in here and then get your post or thread deleted to "avoid fighting".

He owns, and developed otservlist "all the base belongs to him", as he can do whatever he wants - since its his.

You must have misunderstood something, I didn't say he's not allowed to do stuff with his website, I said this problem has nothing to do with him.
I wish I could make some funny snide comment at this point, but I'd definitely get my post if not my entire thread deleted if I said anything that would upset any snowflake in here, so I'm just gonna have to keep it to myself... for now
Such free speech very applicable here for sure.

I'm amazed how much you care about something, that you really shouldn't.

I'm amazed at how little you guys care about anything
I mean, not really, you're kinda like average'ish people (maybe from New Jersey at least, lol), they don't care about anything else than selfish stuff too.
Lets go watch a brainless hollywood movie 5+ times a week! Lets have casual sex with everyone we meet! Lets go beat up some random stranger that looks weird or harass a homeless person! Lets go earn some money by stealing or scamming people!
"Who cares, all of those things are positive because we're not telling anyone that what they're doing is wrong, ergo we're definitely the good guys, herp derp!"

Its not like he's selling you the game, and you are buying it - "false advertising".
(if we take the sms 'shop' or whatever they call it; In law it is not viewed as actual shop. Instead a donation, read up the T&C before you donate.)

He's wasting people's time by luring them in with false/misleading advertisement, it sets a negative example ("lying is acceptable") which contributes to more cheating, monopolization, etc, and the lies spreads until you can't trust anyone, and once you can't trust anyone... guess what happens next... I bet you can't guess, can you?
What happens when nobody are friendly with each other because everyone are just out for their own selfish gains?
"I don't care, I just wanna make money and do whatever I want to without having to use my brain, responsibility is too hard!"
Thattaboy.

 

[Lyky]

i think further discussion is pointless, you fail to acknowledge private property; and their rights over their own servers.

You fail to recognize that when you create account, and play the game it ceases to be public domain. Its private. The website may be open to public, or at least part of it, rest is private. The character you create does not belong to you, it never was. It belongs to the owner of the server.
You had to accept T&C while registering your account, (yeah that thing no1 reads, just hits 'I accept'.)

If you think as a owner of OTS one cannot make racist remarks on their server, or whip "whatever" in depot -> you are hell wrong. Owner can, and He/She can also ban anyone on their server without reason or because they just want to do so... there's no real laws against that - no1 who can enforce it. Some people may stop playing on my server in that case - but it doesn't stop any owner from doing so. Just their own ethics and morality forbids them from participating in such unsightly behaviors. But they could. The only thing you can do,: is to go public about it, and not play on such ot. But you have no power what-so-ever against that owner of the server, owner has all the rights to do whatever she/he pleases on his/her ot.

I do acknowledge that milking servers are unethical, and I would never do that myself. But thats, that. I cannot, and neither you can stop them from hosting their servers, and doing just that. As long as there are milking cows they'll keep doing that.

Xinn stated Otservlist bans those that false-advertise their player online counts...

on your private property you still can't just suddenly come out from a room completely nude to any stranger you've invited in, they could probably report or sue you for something like indecent behavior or psychological damage or whatever the actual legal terms are,

yes, you could, (and counter sue you, and as a owner of the private property, owner's word is far more righter than yours 'a guest' which owner can say i didn't invite you - so you are a Bulgar which will be even worse for your case...).
to make it more quasi fun - One could walk out naked, and whip out his/her gun and shoot their 'guest' while at it; then call the coppers, tell them you assaulted or broke in, and feared for his/her life. As they couldn't run, there was nowhere to run - they were scared.
That kind of law we have in USA in every state. Thats why Police officers never want to go inside someone's house. *unlike whats shown in the movies/ tv series... they know it.

On your own land, the laws are even more relaxed... You still have to respect laws of other land owners, etc as behave reasonably quiet after 10pm (as do not shoot a full mag from your full-auto illegal ak47), let your neighbors sleep well... you can do it tomorrow.

I advise you to watch this video,

Its not exactly on the laws, but its very relevant to this discussion, if you contextualize it right.

 

[e.e]

If you think as a owner of OTS one cannot make racist remarks on their server, or whip "whatever" in depot -> you are hell wrong.
(...)
But you have no power what-so-ever against that owner of the server, owner has all the rights to do whatever she/he pleases on his/her ot.

I'm just gonna leave this discussion with you with this quote of yours highlighted. It says enough about your serious case of over-confidence and lack of knowledge and even common sense.
Basically what you're saying is "no laws apply on private property". This statement would be absolutely hilarious if I didn't think you actually meant it and think this to be the case, which is actually just sad.
Take care.

And for everyone else, I'm still interested in your opinion as long as you're not gonna be a complete idiot/troll about it like these two guys.
I'd like to learn that I'm wrong about something, or that I haven't considered something, but it's impossible to learn anything from a couple of rocks like these just rolling around making noise and hitting everything they come across like a couple of winded up one-directional toy cars or rocks rolling down a hill mindlessly until they crash into something, and then keeps on driving if they can keep the momentum...

 

[Lyky]

I'm just gonna leave this discussion with you with this quote of yours highlighted. It says enough about your serious case of over-confidence and lack of knowledge and even common sense.
Basically what you're saying is "no laws apply on private property". This statement would be absolutely hilarious if I didn't think you actually meant it and think this to be the case, which is actually just sad.
Take care.

The laws set down by game masters / server owner applies. Whether you like it or not.

 

[e.e]

Yeah, I'm sure the police, FBI etc takes order from the GMs. OTLand on top of the food chain duh

 

[Tarek]

are you guys still going, im really thankful for the wonderful read

 

[Worr]

@e.e What you're saying is meaningless because words like "corruption" is just a buzzword. You give examples of corruption in society as if that was the same thing, but it's not. Those examples all contain clear definitions of what 'corruption' means and feel free to correct me, but I don't think we fit that definition. For example here is a summary of the law from Germany:

The Criminal Code (Strafgesetzbuch) makes it a criminal offense for a person to offer, pay or accept a bribe in domestic or foreign transactions, and it provides no exception for facilitation payments. Executive managers can be held responsible for offenses committed by company representatives where they actively support or fail to stop the offense. Persons convicted of bribery offenses face up to 10 years’ imprisonment, a criminal fine and confiscation of revenue obtained as a result of the offense. The Criminal Code applies to offenses committed abroad and can be enforced in Germany. While the criminal provisions apply to persons, companies are potentially civilly responsible under the Administrative Offences Act.

Since you obviously don't intend to use the same definition of corruption as any of your examples, please stop citing them and give us something of substance. Write the "anti corruption law" of Otland and tell us what your suggestion is about. Right now it's just meaningless buzzwords and you haven't provided any suggestion for what should happen to "corrupted" and "dishonest" ot server owners. You begged for this attention for so long and we're listening: Tell us what you suggest. Be specific. Stop using buzz words that means nothing and instead define everything you say.

 

[e.e]

I'm bored of you @Worr.
This is level 1 trolling on drugs: strawman, strawman, strawman, "show me the evidence", shift topic, repeat ad nauseam, and claim victory once ignored. It's kindergarten stuff, quite literally, I remember kids doing this kind of stuff as a young child. It's not very far from the kids who just said "NAAAHHH IMPOSSIBLE!!!" and put their fingers in their ears, only they're much cuter, while level 1 trolls are more like obnoxious buggers that fills their parents with regret.
But yeah, I understand you really love attention and will do anything to get some, and it was fun to play with you for a short while, but now you're just getting boring and repetitive to the max

.
Clean your act up, let others post for at least a week's time, maybe while trying to grow a little as a person, and come back again after and I might give you another dose of attention if you're still as desperate for it then.

 

[Peonso]

@Peonso Might want to add that the he created and publicized the formulas for Medivia/Tibianic.

Why? It matters? It's just some sort of Argument from authority - Wikipedia bullshit he keeps repeating. Next post he went totally evasive about the bullshit I pointed and focused on trying to frame me as some sort of stealer of "his work", as if I claimed I did anything (if you click in the link, it's about how default otserv mechanics regarding shield are broken, and how to put Medivia formula to work, it says it's Medivia formula and never something I came up with). Now, I, a hobbist, need to prove him I'm not just a wanna-be-developer as he is.

I'm bored of you @Worr.
This is level 1 trolling on drugs:

Classical @e.e, people disgree with him and he goes full ad hominem mode. You don't agree with the voice of reason, represented by him, you are a troll. It amuses me how no one can be reasonable while disagreeing with him, it's like only trolls voice up and he is some sort of internet white knight.

 

[gunz]

So basically as I get it right @e.e worked on OT which small amount of ppl joined and created this crythread because on some other OT(as he claims worse) attracked a way more ppl.

I have not read all the spam here but I want to mention one thing.

There is an abstract thing that we can call “invisible hand of OT players” which is in some way democracy thing. As from my years of experience people of otland does not reflect the OT community very well. The majority of ot players search for way more different servers than those from otland.

So the players are last instance that sue the server owners. If they are feel lied, they dont play. If they like the server either, they play. If they see corruption, they may quit etc. They are the court and police in one person.

@e.e It is very sad that you gave up after creating your server (maybe first?) and instead of fixing up your server you found that other OT owners are responsible for your failure and started spreading this crythreads.

 

[e.e]

@gunz
No. I've been interested in topics of social justice, politics, and many other topics (I don't want to profile myself too much obviously) since I was a child, and I've been mildly to moderately active in the OT scene before about topics like this.
I came back here in 2016 and registered this account, and saw the OT population declining, as well as a lot of lying and harsh flaming and trolling by people in many threads, as well as a lot of corruption on the OTS I was playing on before I registered here again, and while working on my own server I realized I want to use my platform, no matter how few or many players I have, before or after full launch, that I want to try to make a positive change in my life and in my environment, no matter which environment as long as it might be possible; talk to people in this community (almost) no matter how trolly and stupid many of them are (I'm looking at you rn), and see what comes from it.
If you actually visit my OT thread, that's accessible right down there in my signature, instead of jumping to stupid conclusions based on poor and unfounded assumptions (really your imagination and probably just a wish to flame someone, that's what you guys do, you come in here and flame me hard for trying to expose someone for lying while calling me negative, it's ironic and hypocritical to the max), you'd see I said from the beginning I'm hosting my test server, which it still is, for my own amusement, and in case someone wanna play on it, I care very little how many players I get and have right now, and I expect it to stay low at least until I run the real server, only THEN might I become disappointed.

"If they feel lied to", yes, but people can get cheated or lied to without even knowing (until later)... That is how scams work, do you understand? Nobody buys a shitty overpriced product IRL thinking it's a shitty overpriced product, they think it's good, until they realized when it's too late that it's not.
I haven't given up, and it's not my first server, it's sad and annoying to see another moron come by and make poor assumptions and jump to conclusions and get snide and rude with his first post/initiated contact, you should be ashamed of yourself, but I'm sure you won't be, because I can jump to conclusions like an asshat too. And I bet you came here to be negative because your OT has failed, right? With your logic that must be the case... Bloody stupid twat.

 

[Groggy]

you should be ashamed of yourself, but I'm sure you won't be

^ Every e.e post ever made.