• There is NO official Otland's Discord server and NO official Otland's server list. The Otland's Staff does not manage any Discord server or server list. Moderators or administrator of any Discord server or server lists have NO connection to the Otland's Staff. Do not get scammed!

How hard is it to hire a C++ Dev for OT?

In addition to what's above, it's important to think about where the money is coming from.

To be able to keep the server open and more importantly, pay the developers (which I think is a rarity anyway in OTS), you need to be continuously making money. Or at least getting donations, to put it mildly. The idea of making money on OTS is a long and heated debate but everybody recognizes there is a certain cost to running a server and it's only fair that some donations cover it.

However, recently we see more servers advertise their lunch for 2 weeks and then launch and live for 3 days until they get closed because there is no more players (and then money). Of course, the server owner could use the money to keep the server running, but what's the point if there's nobody online? They can just take the money and go. In fact, the expenses shift in time. Server owners start paying for server and advertisement weeks ahead. Let's assume they rent a server for a month and an advertisement at a well-known server list website. Then they launch in their third week when they have one week of server left and never renew it. They break even, most often. But there is no real RPG that continues. They reap as much money as they can.

Why is that? Like @J.Dre said, most players are <18 years old kids in school. They learned to have much higher requirements. There's more games struggling for their attention. It doesn't mean the other games are better games. Every year people hurry more and have less time. So they end up spending less time on every single game - it doesn't mean they play less overall! But the true gameplay of Tibia requires continuous dedication and time and interest to succeed (and enjoy). That's not possible anymore. So options are limited.
 
Ill make a small clarification based on @J.Dre last reply. I never implied freelancers would expect to make a life out of this community i dont even think they will come here expecting to make a life here. The truth is this one, the best way to get a developer is to to make job ad on the job section. If you cant get anyone in your team or interested on your project then you will need a freelancer. If you get a freelancer you cant expect to get something good for cheap, you cant bash a freelancer if he is asking a real world payment if his work is positivily commented here and you should not assume he will work for cheap either. In a few words freelancers are people with real life jobs implied with the community for positive reasons willing to help other projects while they work on their own but not for cheap. Team members are people who would like to complete a project they believe in for a possible gain on a future. Sadly good experienced team members are VERY hard to find since mostly are taken or they moved on already. Also no one can bash or blame either side if you cant afford a freelancer get a team member if you cant bad for you. Never the less there are always new people or cheaper people to accomplish a job, maybe they are not good maybe they are.
 
agree with don and f0x if you need someone make a post and there is a big difference on someone in a team than someone working for you without being involved in your idea

i joined recently because ive been following otland for a time and now i want to learn some other aspects besides the skills i already have so i can make a server

i know how to make a proper job team thread but can someone point me out on where i can get information on hiring a freelancer which are the best ways on not getting scammed? i understand coders might need payment upfront and designers need to be paid but how a i can avoid getting scammed or how a designer avoids showing his work without getting scammed
 
@Lastlight, there's no way. You can be smart and try to minimize the risk but there is no "way" to avoid getting scammed. It's a matter of luck/trust/people. That's part of the reason why trading OT resources is banned here at Otland. So many people get scammed and it's impossible for us to figure out who scammed who even if we wanted to punish them with a banishment (which wouldn't get you your money back anyway).

The only true way to avoid getting scammed is when you have a team of equally passionate team members driven by the goal of the project, not looking for a monetary incentive and willing to share. If you expect to "invest" in an OTS and that's why you want to "hire" people for it, you're really entering a commercial world and that's not here, you've got wrong address. You will sink all the money you put into it. OTS in its current shape and form physically cannot be financially sustainable. Simply because we are all still use "official" sprites (graphics), meaning you can't treat it as an asset and your whole "business" would be missing a huge chuck of... art. So it's important to understand the difference between donations and income. Some people can "make money" on donations, it happened. But it may not happen again.

Just in case, I'm not implying you want to make a business out of it. I'm just warning you that "hiring" a freelancer may not be worthwhile. The joy here is to learn the technologies and create something yourself. The reward is that you can get away by creating just a little and still have a game server because you get all the rest from Otland (or other sources). It allows you to create just as much as you care (to learn how) to create. This way, you can eventually become kick-ass C++ developer in some time or you can just learn how to install Notepad++ and shuffle values in XML values. In both cases you can make a game that some people will enjoy.
 
@Lastlight, there's no way. You can be smart and try to minimize the risk but there is no "way" to avoid getting scammed. It's a matter of luck/trust/people. That's part of the reason why trading OT resources is banned here at Otland. So many people get scammed and it's impossible for us to figure out who scammed who even if we wanted to punish them with a banishment (which wouldn't get you your money back anyway).

The only true way to avoid getting scammed is when you have a team of equally passionate team members driven by the goal of the project, not looking for a monetary incentive and willing to share. If you expect to "invest" in an OTS and that's why you want to "hire" people for it, you're really entering a commercial world and that's not here, you've got wrong address. You will sink all the money you put into it. OTS in its current shape and form physically cannot be financially sustainable. Simply because we are all still use "official" sprites (graphics), meaning you can't treat it as an asset and your whole "business" would be missing a huge chuck of... art. So it's important to understand the difference between donations and income. Some people can "make money" on donations, it happened. But it may not happen again.

Just in case, I'm not implying you want to make a business out of it. I'm just warning you that "hiring" a freelancer may not be worthwhile. The joy here is to learn the technologies and create something yourself. The reward is that you can get away by creating just a little and still have a game server because you get all the rest from Otland (or other sources). It allows you to create just as much as you care (to learn how) to create. This way, you can eventually become kick-ass C++ developer in some time or you can just learn how to install Notepad++ and shuffle values in XML values. In both cases you can make a game that some people will enjoy.

i mean like what is the general protocol people use here for that kind of things so i can follow it although i know is not safe but might be safer to follow

and a friend and me will try to start complementing our skills (coder and spriter) so we can start developing an idea i am asking because i prefer to get graphic designer from a freelancer and pay their price for something good that what last a lot instead of adding to a team for a web designs and few graphics
 
Basically, C++ is boring, and the only reason any of us will do something is if we like what we are doing.

For example,
I have spent basically half of all my free time over the past 3 years developing my upcoming server (with some breaks).
I have no problem spending all my time working on my project (because I am passionate about it).

But, a few times, I posted a tutorial on here of how to do certain things, and it was a complete waste of time.
When someone starts making an OT Server, it basically has a 99% chance of failure.
  1. Most projects never release.
  2. Even if a project releases, most projects do not get a large enough player-base to be successful.
  3. Even if a project has a successful launch, most projects die totally within 1-2 months. (Which creates the "Reset" servers, where every 1-2 months the server resets, because they only have enough content for 1-2 months then its over, so they have to constantly reset their server to get players back who want to compete to be #1)

If you have an amazing idea, something that would be fun to create and see come to life, you'll be able to find people to help you.
Otherwise, you probably won't have a chance, even if you offer money.
 
I'd also like to point out that programming and computer science is not rocket science, and the average human can without any hinders learn a programming language, and go even further than that and become a computer scientist. It all has to do with your mentality to studying I presume.

I taught myself to program in simpler programming languages, and at that point I had no interest in working with anything related to programming at all. But I started since I thought it was cool with all the endless possibilities. And now, I'm studying computer science and computers are nowadays more of a passion (both hardware & software).

Instead of necessarily having to pay a developer (that is if you have the time), spend some time learning the basics and over time you'll have learnt things for life.

And like @Flatlander said, "c++ is boring [...] but we do it because we like it" - this has much to do with computer science/programming being a creative thing just like painting or any other creative activity.
 
I'd also like to point out that programming and computer science is not rocket science, and the average human can without any hinders learn a programming language, and go even further than that and become a computer scientist. It all has to do with your mentality to studying I presume.

I taught myself to program in simpler programming languages, and at that point I had no interest in working with anything related to programming at all. But I started since I thought it was cool with all the endless possibilities. And now, I'm studying computer science and computers are nowadays more of a passion (both hardware & software).

Instead of necessarily having to pay a developer (that is if you have the time), spend some time learning the basics and over time you'll have learnt things for life.

And like @Flatlander said, "c++ is boring [...] but we do it because we like it" - this has much to do with computer science/programming being a creative thing just like painting or any other creative activity.

I like your comparison to it being creative like painting.

This is how I feel about OTLand currently using your Art Comparison.

Imagine OTLand as an Art Community.

We have all these people copying each others art tutorials and drawing the same stupid tree.
Tree after Tree after Tree after Tree after Tree get drawn and shared. And everyone who draws a stupid tree feels REAL PROUD OF THEMSELVES.

Some people argue that the old trees are better, and some people want help drawing a different type of fruit tree instead of the old apple tree, but everyone is drawing a damn tree.

We have a few people that try to draw different things, like some people try to draw a pond, or a butterfly, or a self portrait, but they are usually half-done or lazily-done in a way that no one wants to look at them.

Then there is this thread that is created, called "How hard is it to hire a paint artist to color my art."
And all the painters look at the thread and think "He probably wants us to paint another stupid tree that he is going to draw."

Sorry, personally I am done drawing trees. I want to draw something no one here has seen, and hopefully it will be a real piece of art that everyone can enjoy.
 
How hard is it to hire a C++ Dev for OT?

Pretty hard.

I would encourage you to learn to code LUA, figure out a way to do whatever you want to do with LUA and do it yourself. Ocassionally when you get stuck, ask the community for free support. More people should be able to help you.

Many people in this community can basic LUA, thus your chance of getting support is greater. And the problems are scattered into smaller pieces so more people bother to look at it and review it.

And start with a less ambitious project. And build upon that as time goes by.
 
And start with a less ambitious project. And build upon that as time goes by.
This.

Archlight began with 2 dungeons, 20 spawns, 11 quests and a 16mb map.

Now there are over 20 dungeons, 150 custom spawns, 150+ quest boxes and a 87mb map.

Don't drown yourself by taking on something too big to chew, don't overcommit to an idea that takes months to make that the players may not actually like, I encourage you to get your ideas out to the community as soon as you can on a cheap VPS, even if only 1-2 people login a day, it will help you see what people really want, not what they say they want on forums (usually not what they actually end up playing).
 
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I draw castles.


About not getting scammed and hiring someone to code for you, there are a few things you can do:
1. Use an escrow service

By using an escrow service, you are introducing a third party to help maintain the legitimacy of the deal.

You will pay the money to the escrow service first, then, the person you hire to work for you will do the work, and submit their work to the escrow service.

Then, the escrow service will transfer the money to the worker, and the product to the buyer.

This is no room to get ''scammed'' as far as getting a product done goes.

I've personally used artistsnclients.com to buy artwork before, and this felt like a much safer route to go, especially when dealing with unknowns.


2. You will have to show sources

If you attempt to hire someone outside of the OT community, you will have to show them Tibia, and the sources for your server for them to help you.

You will probably have to actually have to walk them through playing the game a bit, because despite Tibia being ''an old game'' it is pretty complex and fundamentally works massively differently than most games.

You also will have to be open with your sources, as they will need to read your TFS source, and your client sources to even begin to get a grasp to work with it.

If you feel like you can't show your server files to who you are hiring, you will NOT be able to find anyone to help you out.


3. Explain what you want done in extreme detail,and use pictures when possible

Other people can't read your mind, and rely completely on what you are telling them to even get a grasp on what you want done.

Precision of language is important here as well, as simply using the wrong words can paint the wrong picture in someones head.

Create a mock up of how you want something to work with a diagram, so people can easily reference it and see it with their own eyes. Even if it is a crappy paint drawing, it is easier to reference than a massive collection of words.
 
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