Making the most fun PvE experience on Tibia. (Work in Progress)

[Flatlander]

As the Title says,

I am designing 1 Small Area and the goal is to design the most fun PvE/RPG experience possible, and just focus on that. Once I have a formula for a fun MMO, I can create an entire server from it, but I see way too many custom servers (including my own) be created and fail due after WAY too much time was put into them.

Spoiler: Here are my current goals: (Most already finished)

• Advanced Monster AI: Monsters will have patterns, switch stances, and work together. This should make fighting monsters require actual strategy.
  • Monsters have Aggro: Each monster keeps track of who is nearby, how much damage, healing, and crowd control everyone is doing, and will use this information to make decisions.
  • New "Threat" system: If you run around quickly and make a lot of noise you will generate "Threat" and get the attention of nearby monsters. Also casting spells and doing other actions can generate threat.
  • Monsters have Personalities: Each Monster that spawns can be given it's own name, outfit, and customized AI. This way they will have kind of a personality. Bandit Tim might be better with a sword, while Bandit Joe prefers to stay at a distance more often and shoot arrows. Tim might also prefer to attack low levels and maybe Joe prefers to attack women.
  • Spells and Abilities Monsters use cost Mana, have Cooldowns and even Cast-Time. So you will see a monster start to cast a spell or use an ability and be able to react to it by dodging, healing, putting down a barrier, etc.
  • Monster Pathing: Monsters can go up/down stairs, open doors, flying monsters such as birds can fly over bushes and through windows, and some ghosts can completely phase through walls.
• Advanced Spawning: Monsters will have multiple ways of spawning on the map:
  • Normal: Monsters of course can spawn normally by being placed in spawns on the map editor.
  • Random Encounter: Monsters can also spawn just off-screen, the system makes sure the monster that spawns can reach the player that it is spawning for.
  • Smart-Spawning: Monsters can "invade" an area over time. For example: If a group of goblins are reported to be attacking travelers in a forest, and no one takes care of it. That group of goblins can grow until the entire forest is infested with goblins and they begin attacking nearby towns.
• Quests: There will be random-quests that appear depending on the state of the server.
  • Normal: Normal quests are always available, and some will be included (mainly tutorials).
    
  • Event Quest: Event Quests will be random, they will become available from random NPCs or on "Town Boards" (where people post jobs) and will depend on the state of the server. Using the example above about goblins. There might be a quest for avenging some traveler that was killed by Goblins, or getting back an item they stole. But as the Goblins infest the forest over time, more quests will become available and maybe even the King will get involved and reward any guild that helps clear the forest of goblins.
  • Dungeon Quests: Dungeon quests will be heavily-scripted areas that will have quests show up. For example: The Goblin Lair: An area where an almost infinite hoard of goblins live, and they have traps, puzzles, bosses, secret passages, hidden treasures, etc, all in one area, and you will be able to enter this area and have to get in, and out within a time-limit before the goblins sound their alarm and all hell breaks loose and you are swarmed by so many impossibly powerful goblins that you have no chance of survival.
• Character Development: How you can "level up" and customize your character.
  • Leveling Up: After MUCH consideration and testing we have decided that leveling up will simply allow you to customize your character more. (You will NOT become more powerful by leveling alone, such as Health, Mana, Damage, Armor, Capacity, etc will not increase with levels)
  • Spells and Abilities: Most spells and abilities will be linked to items. This way over time you can customize your character and have different "builds" by using different equipment.
  • Equipment Levels: Equipment will level up as you use them. As items level up you can customize them.
  • Capacity: When completely naked, you will have 100% movement speed and be very fast. As you start equipping items, filling up your backpack with loot, and collecting gold, you will become slower. At 0 cap, you will barely be able to move at all.

This is generally where I am at developing this. The goal is to make a small MMO that works, has a good economy, and is fun to play for long periods of time with good re-playability.

If you have any Suggestions of things you think are fun in MMOs that I didn't include, or something you'd like to see in Tibia that you think would be fun. Please post it and lets talk about it!

 

[Evil Puncker]

client version?

 

[Keru]

Damn @Flatlander quite a good reading.
How will you handle the cast time and will the monsters show an area of where their spells are going, aiming for?
(This is more less what I meant)

If I get any suggestion i will come here latter.

 

[Flatlander]

client version?

Will be a custom client. Tibia client doesn't allow world-light changes, and I want to be able to make custom animations, windows, and allow players to actually CHOOSE their controls.

Damn @Flatlander quite a good reading.
How will you handle the cast time and will the monsters show an area of where their spells are going, aiming for?
(This is more less what I meant)

If I get any suggestion i will come here latter.

For now, cast-time is simply set, and monsters will have orange text display before they use an ability/spell.

I don't know for sure if I want animations showing where spells will hit. If I do it, I will have it for the lower-level easier monsters, and the later monsters you'll have to learn the hard way. (I am against treating players like babies and giving them overpowered tools all the time)

 

[Keru]

So if i understand correctly, before the spell is cast the monster will say something then the spell will be throw?

Well its nothing like babysitting them, its more like make it interactive, cuz right now I'm just used to Dragons/demon don't line in front of them mechanics, with the "Telegraph" you can set a random AoE with the monster as center, make some kind of effect appear where it will hit, with 1 second or so cooldown then the damage is done, this will make player have to react and not just sit or move from the front monster, and you will not be making the NORM of AoE = UEs and stuff like that, you will have some custom spells that actually need mechanics to evade them. (You could even add block paths with out using the telegraph so when the monster cast the spell it sends telegraph then block then damage)
But yee i agree players should have hard times im all in for it <3 i want to see this brought to life man keep it up!

 

[Flatlander]

So if i understand correctly, before the spell is cast the monster will say something then the spell will be throw?

Well its nothing like babysitting them, its more like make it interactive, cuz right now I'm just used to Dragons/demon don't line in front of them mechanics, with the "Telegraph" you can set a random AoE with the monster as center, make some kind of effect appear where it will hit, with 1 second or so cooldown then the damage is done, this will make player have to react and not just sit or move from the front monster, and you will not be making the NORM of AoE = UEs and stuff like that, you will have some custom spells that actually need mechanics to evade them. (You could even add block paths with out using the telegraph so when the monster cast the spell it sends telegraph then block then damage)
But yee i agree players should have hard times im all in for it <3 i want to see this brought to life man keep it up!

Nonono, The "Telegraph" part is the orange text.

For Example, Lets say the demon's Energy Beam is 3 tiles wide instead of 1, and shoots 15 tiles forward and does more damage.
Then the demon says "Ultimate Energy Beam", stands still facing one direction and maybe has energy particles flow towards him, then after the ChargeUp/Channel/CastTime or whatever you wish to call it, it would shoot a giant energy beam that would wave across the screen. Now, anyone in front of the demon will be hit.

The fact you SEE the demon say "Ultimate Energy Beam" and you can see what direction that demon is facing should be enough, you don't need all the tiles highlighted to show where the damage will be. You can predict where the Energy Beam will go.

I don't believe in randomized spells that you cannot predict, it is simply unfair, so you won't need to worry about being unable to dodge something or avoid damage. If there IS a random spell, (such random huge boulders falling from the sky), there will be smaller pebbles and debris first, then the huge boulder will fall where the pebble-falling animation was.

 

[Keru]

@Flatlander
I see, I see. but then you are in for the massive AoEs that can't be dodge what so ever? thats what tibia became latley Massive AoEs that either kill you or don't let you dodge. but yehh i see what you mean

 

[Flatlander]

@Flatlander
I see, I see. but then you are in for the massive AoEs that can't be dodge what so ever? thats what tibia became latley Massive AoEs that either kill you or don't let you dodge. but yehh i see what you mean

Yea huge AoEs are lazy game-making.

 

[saposafado]

You said pretty much everything.
People often spend WAY too much time developing something that they end up never finishing.
I hope to see yours pretty soon, good luck.

 

[Flatlander]

I just moved to a new apartment so I haven't been able to work on this much. Right now I am working on Monster AI and how I want things to work.

There are currently 2 types of avoidable spells Monsters can use:

1. Aiming Spells: These spells are cast on specific targets, and if you don't move outside of the "Aiming Area" you will be hit.
   • Example - Sudden Death Rune: You see a Monster cast Sudden Death (Orange Monster-Text will appear above the monster), ONLY the target will see the orange "Aiming Area". If the target does not leave the Aiming Area by the time the Monster is done Casting, you will be hit.
2. Area Spells: These spells are cast on specific areas, and if you are inside of the "Effected Area" you will be hit.
   • Example - Great Fireball Rune: You see a Monster cast Great Fireball (Orange Monster- Text will appear above the monster), EVERYONE will see the orange "Aiming Area" so they can avoid it. Any creature inside of the orange area when the spell is done Casting will be hit.

Monsters can also currently switch target distances (For example, a bandit could be attacking you in melee range, then suddenly switch to a ranged stance), their spells use mana and have mana regen (to allow players to keep a mental note of which monsters have already used spells and which have full mana), and they can change their strategy and even learn new spells under a number of different situations, for example being low health, outnumbered, a friend dieing, getting a kill, etc.

 

[Tony32]

Really interesting. I've been waiting for this kind of idéa to be done. Instances/Raids like in MMOs like WoW but in Tibia. I like it!

I enjoy PVE when there are tactics involved were you actually have to be skilled and figure out how to handle the encounter. Just not tank and spank like Tibia've always been.

 

[PREFECTsquared]

It's good to see you're still going
I hope we can all play something of yours soon

 

[Flatlander]

Really interesting. I've been waiting for this kind of idéa to be done. Instances/Raids like in MMOs like WoW but in Tibia. I like it!

I enjoy PVE when there are tactics involved were you actually have to be skilled and figure out how to handle the encounter. Just not tank and spank like Tibia've always been.

Agreed, one of the goals is to make monsters require strategy, I find games much more fun when I can find my own ways to do things, and try to use skill and smarts to beat monsters.

Rather than - "At level 20 you hunt this, then at level 30 you hunt this."
I'd rather it be - "I can kill dragons, packs of wolves, and bandits all solo, because I have the tools needed and a working strategy"

It's good to see you're still going
I hope we can all play something of yours soon

Yep! Still here.
To help the server come out faster, we plan to do "Town Releases". Meaning we are literally working on a single town and it's surrounding hunting areas/dungeons/quests/etc. The goal is, every single town should have SO MUCH to do around it, MULTIPLE dungeons, hunting areas, hundreds of quests, world events, etc. Basically, if you took ANY 50 sqm of the map, you should find fun content (even if it's hidden, secret areas are fun!). There shouldn't be anywhere on the entire map where you would be "bored".

 

[PREFECTsquared]

Yep! Still here.
To help the server come out faster, we plan to do "Town Releases". Meaning we are literally working on a single town and it's surrounding hunting areas/dungeons/quests/etc. The goal is, every single town should have SO MUCH to do around it, MULTIPLE dungeons, hunting areas, hundreds of quests, world events, etc. Basically, if you took ANY 50 sqm of the map, you should find fun content (even if it's hidden, secret areas are fun!). There shouldn't be anywhere on the entire map where you would be "bored".

Who's mapping for you?

 

[Flatlander]

Who's mapping for you?

No one currently, I'm doing the mapping myself due to the heavy amount of scripting in each area.

I have put in a lot of interactive environment, so it requires knowledge of scripting, or at least knowing how things are going to work to be able to map.

For example:
If a Bridge is broken:

• You can still walk on it and fall down into the water.
  • If you are low on Free Capacity (Heavy), you will sink to the ocean floor where you will be "holding" your breath, and have to find a way out while using Bubbles to get more air. ((This means ANY WATER YOU CAN GET TO, MUST ALSO HAVE AN UNDERWATER AREA BELOW IT)) **Unless it is shallow water**
    
  • If you have plenty of Free Capacity (Light), you will be able to swim on the water.
• You can also just use an Equipment-Ability or Passive to dash, fly, float, etc over the missing bridge part.
  
• Sometimes you can also just repair the bridge, or use an item to cross over the missing part (Using Wooden Planks to make a temporary path)

I want the map to be interactive, and you should be able to use your environment to your advantage when fighting monsters.

 

[PREFECTsquared]

I dropped you a message on your profile!

 

[Keru]

@Flatlander
And your point is? if you tell an experienced mapper what you just described there, he/she could recreate it, the same or better than what you will do lol.
to me it seems like you are giving excuses with how you formatted that answer .

BTW you are trying to make Tibia a SandboxGame by how you describe it, and i love it

 

[Flatlander]

@Flatlander
And your point is? if you tell an experienced mapper what you just described there, he/she could recreate it, the same or better than what you will do lol.
to me it seems like you are giving excuses with how you formatted that answer .

BTW you are trying to make Tibia a SandboxGame by how you describe it, and i love it

Sure, I completely agree, if I had all the theme, traps, quests, abilities, monsters and environment interaction planned out before-hand then it may be possible for a mapper to do a good job. The issue is, I don't have the entire map already planned, and I don't know what will be in each area yet. I am making it as I go.

In my personal opinion, Great experiences are made OVER TIME and I find most mappers don't like to continuously re-do their mapping.

For Example:

1. You decide on a Terrain. Such as a Forest.
   
2. Decide on a Theme, such as maybe there are goblins in the forest that are attacking travelers that use the forest to go between towns.
   
3. NOW begins the crazy part, My server will have "Area-Stages" where basically an area can change depending on how players react to it.
   • If players go in and kill all the goblins, burn down their tents, and work to make the forest safe, the goblins might end up pushed back to their caves, or swamp or whatever their homeland is nearby.
   • If players ignore the forest, the goblins could start making small campsites and causing even more trouble.
   • If the players CONTINUE to ignore the forest the goblins could completely infest the forest, it become covered in goblin-made traps, and they could start attacking nearby towns and locations.
   • Also things can change depending on what time of day it is, maybe Goblins are Nocturnal, so at Night you find them roaming the forest, and during the day you find them in their camp.
   • BUT YOU CAN ONLY MAP STAGE 1, My scripts will change the terrain, build the camps, set up the traps, and spawn the monsters. Depending on what stage the area is currently at. Therefor unless someone works with me daily or at least weekly and puts forth HUGE amounts of time, their map will be useless to me.
4. Now after making all the above steps, plus adding in quests, randomized NPC interractions, possible boss battles, and other things you PLAY through the forest like 500 times and re-do boring areas, and basically over-time fill the entire forest with interesting content that can change over time.
5. Then you take all of the above, and compare it to other areas, and if the forest isn't as fun, or good as other areas of the map, you will need to find a way to make it more fun and interesting.

Also, the game is being designed with exploration in mind. For example, at the start of the game, you pass by bridges that are broken during prologue. BUT! Later on you receive a "Dash Dagger" which allows you to dash over 3 tiles. This means you can GO BACK to the prologue area, and dash over the broken bridges, and see what was hidden there. (There were be hundreds of spells and passives that can be found linked to any equipment in the game)

The game is being designed as a whole, it isn't going to be like other Tibia servers, so if a Mapper WAS going to work on it, they would need to be TOTALLY invested in the project. Or not care if we change their map 5,000 times because well, it simply isn't going to be finished until it is redone multiple times and perfected.

Plus, 90% of OtLand mappers that I have seen, map TINY little pretty areas (And yes, they are absolutely beautiful), because they only care about 1 screenshot that they are posting. But I need large well-thought out areas that provide a positive and fun experience, not a pretty picture.

 

[Keru]

@Flatlander
Again sounds like excuse , I offered my help with mapping pieces back some months ago, and TBH there are also plenty of mappers that do big stuff, the thing is they/we never finish something cuz we miss ideas some times.
TBH those mappers that do 14 x 14 pieces, redo the map a lot of times to make it look better. So your "They don't like to remake maps" its an understatement, and based on your opinion.

Yes, Maps go o the run, yes, you may not have a designated idea, but then again you can make a plan and start off of there, and just like you did here on both post tell the mapper what you want, and he/she will surely make it a reality

I don't mean to pry or anything else good luck

 

[Flatlander]

@Flatlander
Again sounds like excuse , I offered my help with mapping pieces back some months ago, and TBH there are also plenty of mappers that do big stuff, the thing is they/we never finish something cuz we miss ideas some times.
TBH those mappers that do 14 x 14 pieces, redo the map a lot of times to make it look better. So your "They don't like to remake maps" its an understatement, and based on your opinion.

Yes, Maps go o the run, yes, you may not have a designated idea, but then again you can make a plan and start off of there, and just like you did here on both post tell the mapper what you want, and he/she will surely make it a reality

I don't mean to pry or anything else good luck

The "They don't like to remake maps" comment was from all the mappers that have worked with me over the past 15 years of me making OTs. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying finding someone that wants to spend all their free time mapping simply for my server isn't realistic.