Moving forward

OTLand is an open-source community, and there is nothing wrong with the people who run servers and make money from that, running a server is not essentially free and takes a lot of effort. The problem is when people use free resources such as The Forgotten Server and don't give anything back to the community -- or even worse, try to sell the resources they create.

We need to start working together to move forward. I've been working on The Forgotten Server for free for over 6 years and I've never asked anyone to pay me for a copy. When I see people fork my project, add something to it and sell their additions it demotivates me from continuing to share my improvements to the engine for free.

I'm not going to be nice and expect people to understand what an open-source community is anymore, as of today, I'm closing down the Marketplace board and making it illegal to sell OpenTibia resources on OTLand. If you're in an open-source community to make money, you're at the wrong place. It is still OK to charge for hosting services, and advertising such services should be done in the Jobs forum. Advertising websites where you can buy or sell OpenTibia resources will not be tolerated.

The best way to move forward is by doing it together, and therefore it is important that we help all the newcomers with their questions in hope that they will learn and contribute to the community. The support team has done a good job with that, but there will always be room for improvement. If you cannot contribute with codes or scripts, at least contribute by helping out the newbies in the community!

To encourage developers and end-users of the OpenTibia software to contribute more, I've also closed down the private subversion in favor of an open GitHub repository. While this may result in less donations to OTLand because many were paying for a premium subscription with the intention to get private subversion access rather than supporting OTLand, I will do my best to keep OTLand ad free.

Watch and fork The Forgotten Server at GitHub! If you have made any changes that you feel should be in the official repository, create a pull request.

 

[Delirium]

OtLands main source of money was generated from people who purchased OtLand Premium in order to gain access to the private SVN TFS(an incomplete work that will remain unfinished). I'm sure that the OtLand staff was fully aware of the fact that they gained the most Premium Members because they would allow access to the private SVN TFS, I'm wondering how you can claim that you didn't support a work that you would let users have access to if they bought Premium Membership?

Maybe your intention never was for people to buy Premium Membership in order to gain access to the private SVN TFS, but as more and more people started to buy Premium Membership to get access to the benefits and not to actually support OtLand I'm sure that it was more and more being considered as selling a product and not receiving donations. I'm glad that the private SVN TFS and Marketplace now has been removed, but honestly I think it's way too late.

And this is why complaints about TFS 0.4 being dropped should be ignored. Because those who donated in order to get access to it, failed to realise that the actual point of donating is not to gain access to software and other resources but to give something back to the largest OpenTibia information & resources community. I honestly believe we should refund anyone instantly who pays to get the benefits and thinks he's going to be treated differently than anyone else.

many here support staff and moderators, are expressing themselves without even knowing what they're saying!
say they support, and also used.
say they are satisfied, should more inside this crazy rage.

Well, first of all you totally made no sense there. Furthermore, feel free to express yourself for us if you think that you know what's going on internally and externally better than we do. However, I shall warn you that there might be consequences if what you say is totally false.

 

[Daky]

I honestly believe we should refund anyone instantly who pays to get the benefits and thinks he's going to be treated differently than anyone else.

Donated* , but I did donate for the bold & blue username. But seeing as everyone has that now, meh idk men

 

[FabianoBN]

Well, first of all you totally made no sense there. Furthermore, feel free to express yourself for us if you think that you know what's going on internally and externally better than we do. However, I shall warn you that there might be consequences if what you say is totally false.

I'm not saying anything about what happens internally, but what you say here own!
I'm saying the words spoken here in this topic and nothing to do with what happens to the Forum.

 

[Core_]

So we don't have donator status anymore?

 

[WibbenZ]

Well at first I must say I wasen't that happy about the "temp" template. But kinda starting to like it, And its nice to see OTLand moving forward will donate soon again to show my apprication. Thanks Mark. Happy to see OTLand moving forward from what it was at the "later" time.
Regards WibbenZ

 

[Seksy]

These resources were and still are on Premium Board. In the private SVN there was only TFS engine.

but no way to access it anymore?? no link is up, its no good if its not here or am i just missing it?

And this is why complaints about TFS 0.4 being dropped should be ignored. Because those who donated in order to get access to it, failed to realise that the actual point of donating is not to gain access to software and other resources but to give something back to the largest OpenTibia information & resources community. I honestly believe we should refund anyone instantly who pays to get the benefits and thinks he's going to be treated differently than anyone else.

I beg to differ, it was listed as access to premium scripts and distros not asvailable to general public was it not?? the membership was worded if i recall to imply that one would have access to particular benefits not available to regular users so yes I do think anyone who payed should still be given full access to those things in the PSVN

by what I am seeing here it seems to me that admins are pretty much saying they will do as they please and members opinions are of no importance?? this is a step in the wrong direction my friend (if i am correct in my assumptions)

not that i am bitching im just thinking if we resort to saying "youre gonna do this and that" thats just going to make members feel as if they have no choice at all and will end up in a ton of arguments and sour feelings.

 

[Delirium]

So we don't have donator status anymore?

We do. You have a userbar below your name stating "Premium User". A normal user has no userbar at all. All the features are also active as far as I've seen.

Donated* , but I did donate for the bold & blue username. But seeing as everyone has that now, meh idk men

You can distinguish a donation from a purchase. Both however, are forms of a payment.
Well, when I was a premium member back in 2007-2008, I donated primarily to get the blue name I admit. It was sexy and I liked it.

I beg to differ, it was listed as access to premium scripts and distros not asvailable to general public was it not?? the membership was worded if i recall to imply that one would have access to particular benefits not available to regular users so yes I do think anyone who payed should still be given full access to those things in the PSVN

by what I am seeing here it seems to me that admins are pretty much saying they will do as they please and members opinions are of no importance?? this is a step in the wrong direction my friend (if i am correct in my assumptions)

There is no forum on the planet where democracy exists. I am pretty sure that Talaturen runs this forum professionaly, which is why it has been kept to a high quality level. You, me, everyone else have no power over the decisions of Talaturen and Kornholijo. As for the terms, tt was also stated that these terms may change without prior notice. If you accepted the term that you'll be getting access to private material, you also accepted the term that terms may change. The fact that PSVN was removed is because it was off the site's purpose. If making money over OT stuff was the point, I'm pretty sure the name of this website would tland.net and not otland.net.

 

[Seksy]

There is no forum on the planet where democracy exists. I am pretty sure that Talaturen runs this forum professionaly, which is why it has been kept to a high quality level. You, me, everyone else have no power over the decisions of Talaturen and Kornholijo. As for the terms, tt was also stated that these terms may change without prior notice. If you accepted the term that you'll be getting access to private material, you also accepted the term that terms may change. The fact that PSVN was removed is because it was off the site's purpose. If making money over OT stuff was the point, I'm pretty sure the name of this website would tland.net and not otland.net.

first dont misunderstand im not bitching im just stating plain facts and opinion.
yes terms may change but perhaps some of you dont realize one big point. when you give a service for a monetary gain (and otland did give a servicfe for a monetary gain regardless of what you call it legal terms state it IS a service for a fee), you have officially agreed to render that service. failure to render such services then constitutes a breach of an implied contract. terms have no association with the service implied only with the site that so renders them. if an individual decided to do so they can make it difficult on who ever runs it.
i still say make it simple, instead of telling everyonhe your gonna do it my way, just be open minded and say here is all the PSVN use it at will, but its not supported..end of story..end of the headache
or is this going to be more of a battle of power or ego to say I won and you didnt?

making it a battle only leaves wounds where there should be none

no offense to tal or any other admin, im just a straight and open guy

 

[Delirium]

first dont misunderstand im not bitching im just stating plain facts and opinion.
yes terms may change but perhaps some of you dont realize one big point. when you give a service for a monetary gain (and otland did give a servicfe for a monetary gain regardless of what you call it legal terms state it IS a service for a fee), you have officially agreed to render that service. failure to render such services then constitutes a breach of an implied contract. terms have no association with the service implied only with the site that so renders them. if an individual decided to do so they can make it difficult on who ever runs it.
i still say make it simple, instead of telling everyonhe your gonna do it my way, just be open minded and say here is all the PSVN use it at will, but its not supported..end of story..end of the headache
or is this going to be more of a battle of power or ego to say I won and you didnt?

making it a battle only leaves wounds where there should be none

no offense to tal or any other admin, im just a straight and open guy

First of all, it was stated clearly on the introduction text (on the donations page) that a donation should be treated as a gift and that you expect nothing in return. The fact that a person who donates gets something in return is not because he's actually doing a purchase but as a thanks for his contribution. Accepting the term which states that terms may change without prior notice nulls automatically any complaint for any deprived feature. To remind you, a donation is not a purchase. It's a gift. When you gift someone, you're not expecting him/her to give you back something but utter the words "thank you". Since we can't thank everyone individually here, we're providing these benefits to fill the need to thank everyone who donates. Anyway, TFS 0.4 was an unfinished project or under development. The GitHub repository contains a better TFS version which is more stable and better. Every other resource is still there.

Addendum:
I am not trying to attack you verbally or something. I am just clarifying what a donation is because some members totally have the wrong idea about it. Most of them think they're actually purchasing something, which is not the case.

 

[Seksy]

well either way, i think that yanking the right for users to have access to and to continue to use that which was on the PSVN is a bad decision. ive worked for years in customer service and public service and i found that when you do so people see that as a dictatorship and it only causes a big mess..just solve the issue by saying here..use this section but dont ask for support...problem is solved and everyone can move on to new if they so choose.

i myself would like to use both but as it seems from here on out i will be limited to what i currently have. not many are going to start over they will go elsewhere or start trying to get people to leak what they have gotten from the PSVN either way it ends in bad feelings.
Am I not right about that part? i think you know this too, we se eit starting already

plus take for example like me, i was planning on getting the 8.7 server that was there, to continue my work on something that was better than what I have, now with it being taken away, im thinking of just tossing the whole project because i dont wanna start totally over now. many will feel that way, im just trying to help on both sides..and yes i do see the point from both sides

clarify that, the resources that were there more or less. maybe just move out all resources that were there to a public section?? i dunno...just ideas
i understood the engine there on the PSVN was much better thats why i wanted it now im stuck with the crappy one i got :S

 

[Rugged Mage]

honestly, it's the truth that almost everyone that's a premium donated for the svn, but if Tal -now Mark I believe- doesn't want an SVN on the website there's really no need in complaining because, you wont change his opinion easily

 

[Seksy]

alloow me to ask this then, if its no longer available for a fee or donation or what ever you wish to call it, then is it ok for anyone to post it or offer it to someone?

honestly, it's the truth that almost everyone that's a premium donated for the svn, but if Tal -now Mark I believe- doesn't want an SVN on the website there's really no need in complaining because, you wont change his opinion easily

well no offense to tal, mark or who ever but here is what that looks like it looks like someone is saying
"well i got your money now i dont care so ill do as i please" mark my words it wont be long till the members start saying that and not just because i mentioned it either. people complain it nature

 

[Mark]

alloow me to ask this then, if its no longer available for a fee or donation or what ever you wish to call it, then is it ok for anyone to post it or offer it to someone?

Yes, and it was always legal by the license.

well no offense to tal, mark or who ever but here is what that looks like it looks like someone is saying
"well i got your money now i dont care so ill do as i please" mark my words it wont be long till the members start saying that and not just because i mentioned it either. people complain it nature

You're acting as if we were selling a service, we were not and that's the fact. It clearly states that you cannot expect anything in return for your donation, and that the benefits may change at anytime. Whether you want to see it this way or look at it as we were selling a service is your problem, we've already told you what it is. There are still benefits for premium users, and there will be other benefits in the future in place of the private subversion. The new benefits will however not be at the cost of restricting access to the latest development code to regular users, because that is bad for an open-source community.

 

[Seksy]

I understand that mark, the question of raqther its a donation or a payment is irrelevant to me (maybe not to others but to me) my whole point is..i am saying dont toss and totally nix what was on the PSVN simply move it into a now open location and allow users to use it if they desire..but explain it is unsupported. allow the members themselves to support each other because not everyone wants to go new. i dont argue the point of pay or no pay.

no more than a week ago i myself said this work for a fee was killing open source and the ot movement but i also think that forcing people to go new is bad too, leave it out there and who knows maybe at some point someone will improve those resources even more but dont toss them away....i hope that helps you understand more of what i am saying

anyway ive said whats on my mind, maybe someone out there who has the resources from the PSVN may be kind enough to share them with those who are trying to continue on with the older versions.

i was under the impression there were premium scripts as well on the PSVN ?? what will happen to those?? will they be canned as well? would be nice to have those to learn from

 

[Willbor]

I support your idea!

 

[Seksy]

omg i just got my hands slapped for expressing my opinions and they used the old double post as an excuse..peroxide says to me

Seksy,

Your actions in this message (Moving forward) are not appropriate. Just because the double-post countermeasure has been removed due to the move to XenForo does not mean that you're now allowed to start double posting. This does not follow our rules. Your message may have been removed or altered.

Your account's access may be limited based on these actions. Please keep this in mind when posting or using our site.
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so what?? since i express my opinion then add to my post another idea i get threatened?? is this the way its gonna be?? jeez thats olmost communist. why dont the mods spend as much time removing dead link threads as they do worrying about double posts?? then OTland will be less cluttered :S cmon guys get real for pete sake im just trying to express ideas

 

[Peroxide]

omg i just got my hands slapped for expressing my opinions and they used the old double post as an excuse..peroxide says to me

Seksy,

Your actions in this message (Moving forward) are not appropriate. Just because the double-post countermeasure has been removed due to the move to XenForo does not mean that you're now allowed to start double posting. This does not follow our rules. Your message may have been removed or altered.

Your account's access may be limited based on these actions. Please keep this in mind when posting or using our site.
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so what?? since i express my opinion then add to my post another idea i get threatened?? is this the way its gonna be?? jeez thats olmost communist. why dont the mods spend as much time removing dead link threads as they do worrying about double posts?? then OTland will be less cluttered :S cmon guys get real for pete sake im just trying to express ideas

That's what this is for

 

[ItWasAllMe]

What was so unstable about the 0.3 engine? I know a lot of popular servers that uses that and they're doing fine.

 

[Seksy]

That's what this is for

cmon peroxide...seriously?? id understand if i was spamming like hell but two posts??

 

[Summ]

cmon peroxide...seriously?? id understand if i was spamming like hell but two posts??

You might want to stop complaining about mods actually doing their job. If it is a rule and it gets enforced there is no reason to cry about it.