Moving towards OTC

[WibbenZ]

I won't help at first, but I will probably help in the future (will be a few months, since I'm just about to release a new project)

Well let's hope we get some who are ready, otherwise it will be hard to maintain it

 

[Hameq]

I've played alot servers using OTC and i think it's event better than normal client. While playing i noticed on OTC you can walk with greater precision. In normal client the walking system is similar to dash function and that doesnt mean it's better.
Never experienced any lags so i don't know what you are talking about

 

[Flatlander]

I've played alot servers using OTC and i think it's event better than normal client. While playing i noticed on OTC you can walk with greater precision. In normal client the walking system is similar to dash function and that doesnt mean it's better.
Never experienced any lags so i don't know what you are talking about

With a good computer, the OTClient is superior in my opinion.

But if you have a really bad computer some people have issues with the OTClient.

I'm sure I will have PLENTY of people complaining about issues on my upcoming server.

 

[whitevo]

Feel free to send in PRs, both bug fixes aswell as code cleaning.

what are PR's?
I will look into the OTC monday/tuesday and see with what I can help with.

 

[WibbenZ]

what are PR's?
I will look into the OTC monday/tuesday and see with what I can help with.

Pull request, https://github.com/otland/forgottenserver/pulls

 

[Sportacus]

I have forked OTC, did some updates aswell to start it all up.
Let see if people are ready to do this or not
Feel free to send in PRs, both bug fixes aswell as code cleaning.
https://github.com/WibbenZ/otclient

I hope you do realize that this commit you made completely breaks the OT client, and makes it unusable.

.otmod and .otui files can't have tabs in them or else they won't load.


I appreciate the effort and enthusiasm you have for wanting to make the OT Client better, but you gotta think these things out, and be careful about what you commit.

Also, generally speaking, commit things with a primary singular focus, so if there is a problem with the commit, it is easier to spot and undo/fix.

I can't even test if the brackets you added in helped/fixed some scripts, due to the space to tab problem leaving the client unusable, and the commit being too large to find what scripts you actually added in the corrected brackets.

Also, while correct tabbing and removing trailing white space is good habit, and makes for easier to read scripts, it is the least of the worries when there are actual content updates that need to be done, and bugs that need to be fixed.

 

[Printer]

The reason i will not use otclient for my server. Is because alot of player have machine from the stone edge.
Even tho i find otc very promosing with be able to code with lua. But i hope someone will be able to tune the client and make major clean ups. I will not be able to help, since my c++ is very vauge and also i will not know what is the best coding option.

But i would be intressted to help in some way.

 

[Nu77]

I think the first thing to look on is the light render, since that is what are causing a lot of performance drop. Maybe when i have more time i can look better into this.
Anyway like @Sportacus said this commit broken the otml files since that cannot accept more than 2 spaces or read hard tabs. Also before doing a fork, try contacting the OTC main developers, is better than splitting it.

 

[WibbenZ]

I hope you do realize that this commit you made completely breaks the OT client, and makes it unusable.

.otmod and .otui files can't have tabs in them or else they won't load.


I appreciate the effort and enthusiasm you have for wanting to make the OT Client better, but you gotta think these things out, and be careful about what you commit.

Also, generally speaking, commit things with a primary singular focus, so if there is a problem with the commit, it is easier to spot and undo/fix.

I can't even test if the brackets you added in helped/fixed some scripts, due to the space to tab problem leaving the client unusable, and the commit being too large to find what scripts you actually added in the corrected brackets.

Also, while correct tabbing and removing trailing white space is good habit, and makes for easier to read scripts, it is the least of the worries when there are actual content updates that need to be done, and bugs that need to be fixed.

Yea I have no ide what im doing, never really done any major things with OTC.
About the tabs I used notepad++ and replaced everything to make it quicker.

Also, while correct tabbing and removing trailing white space is good habit, and makes for easier to read scripts, it is the least of the worries when there are actual content updates that need to be done, and bugs that need to be fixed.

Yes but if you read the earlier posts it seems like this is a thing people get annoyed with and also ive seen it outside of this thread.
So id say start with the code style so people can work, or do you prefer to work in a mess?
I doubt many of us have enough knowledge with OTC to just start, we who don't need a code that is easy to learn and understand, otherwise we will spend hours on just trying to figger out small stupid and easy things.

The reason i will not use otclient for my server. Is because alot of player have machine from the stone edge.
Even tho i find otc very promosing with be able to code with lua. But i hope someone will be able to tune the client and make major clean ups. I will not be able to help, since my c++ is very vauge and also i will not know what is the best coding option.

But i would be intressted to help in some way.

And this is why we need this, it should atleast be as good as the standalone client so if they discontinue it we have a backup ready to go.

I think the first thing to look on is the light render, since that is what are causing a lot of performance drop. Maybe when i have more time i can look better into this.
Anyway like @Sportacus said this commit broken the otml files since that cannot accept more than 2 spaces or read hard tabs. Also before doing a fork, try contacting the OTC main developers, is better than splitting it.

Ye as I said above I used notepad++'s find and replace, did not know the otml files had to have spaces, but that is an easy fix anyways.
Well they have been tagged here, I bet someone has written to them about the post but they are still inactive on the OTC github page aswell as otland.
And I also tought we should have something to come with when we try to contact them.

 

[Mr. Greyshade]

And here's an update cip posted a couple of months ago regarding their new client and steam if someone has missed it:

Current Status: No ETA Available
23 SEPTEMBER - CIPSOFT
Dear Tibians!

Sorry for the lack of status updates on this project! We really appreciate your interest in a Tibia release on Steam.
Unfortunately, we do not have real news at the moment. We are still aiming to release Tibia on Steam and we will continue to work towards this goal. However, a Steam release is closely linked to the development of a new Tibia client - a time-intensive, long term project on which we have been working for quite some time already. At the moment, we are still in a development stage where we cannot provide concrete, reliable information about this project. This also means that we cannot provide an ETA concerning a Tibia release on Steam yet or an estimation as to when we will be able to share more details with you. Of course, we will let you know as soon as we have news about this.

Thank you for your patience and for your continued support!

See you in Tibia!

From: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/updates/257622182/1443010138

OTClient is definitely very nice and has lots of potential and it would be great if it got more attention. I actually prefer it to the normal client but it did feel a bit weird in the start, not sure how that could be fixed.

 

[WibbenZ]

And here's an update cip posted a couple of months ago regarding their new client and steam if someone has missed it:

From: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/updates/257622182/1443010138

OTClient is definitely very nice and has lots of potential and it would be great if it got more attention. I actually prefer it to the normal client but it did feel a bit weird in the start, not sure how that could be fixed.

Well most of it I hope and think can be fixed by a skin that is more aimed to be like the standalone client.
And as ive heard before by others while talking about OTC and in this thread, the main problem seems to be the code style and performance issues(not to mention the idle animation xD).

 

[zbizu]

OTClient is definitely very nice and has lots of potential and it would be great if it got more attention. I actually prefer it to the normal client but it did feel a bit weird in the start, not sure how that could be fixed.

right panel windows should be smaller to fit more containers, combat controls, battle list, inventory, minimap, etc.
stuff seen on normal client should be visible in otc by default, this way it would look more familiar

for example: combat controls should be moved to inventory, hp and mp bars shouldn't include exp pool cap and soul

 

[J.Dre]

I've always seen OTC as a step in a direction for which Open Tibia has so desperately needed to venture. However, OTC is not something we should switch to and expect to use as a primary client. It has many imperfections and still requires much more work to be a viable replacement for the standalone client. With that said, it's still an important project and deserves our undivided attention.

It's been my intention to create a new client based on both. We've seen this before with TFS: Mark creates TFS 0.2, then another shows up (0.3/0.4), and now there's a third (1.x) that is attempting to be the best at both worlds. It seems like OTC is just now reaching the second step in a three step process. The 'best of both' having yet to be made.

OTC needs to change. And to do that, it must evolve. A combination between a standalone and web-based client would be ideal, in my opinion. That's what I had hoped to create - something dynamic in its ability to act as a standalone and/or web client (e.g. via attachment or extension). Is this possible? Maybe. I think yes, but I'm not a programmer.

Regards,
J.Dre

 

[WibbenZ]

I've always seen OTC as a step in a direction for which Open Tibia has so desperately needed to venture. However, OTC is not something we should switch to and expect to use as a primary client. It has many imperfections and still requires much more work to be a viable replacement for the standalone client. With that said, it's still an important project and deserves our undivided attention.

It's been my intention to create a new client based on both. We've seen this before with TFS: Mark creates TFS 0.2, then another shows up (0.3/0.4), and now there's a third (1.x) that is attempting to be the best at both worlds. It seems like OTC is just now reaching the second step in a three step process. The 'best of both' having yet to be made.

OTC needs to change. And to do that, it must evolve. A combination between a standalone and web-based client would be ideal, in my opinion. That's what I had hoped to create - something dynamic in its ability to act as a standalone and/or web client (e.g. via attachment or extension). Is this possible? Maybe. I think yes, but I'm not a programmer.

Regards,
J.Dre

Well if you diden't know 1.0 was created from 0.2.
Mark did not rewrite everything
And im saying we should do the same, fix things with "0.2" / OTC to make "1.0" / OTC NG and if we should follow Marks path we should start with cleaning the code, optimizing the code and then start adding new things.
People might not like this, but in the end I agree with Mark about not adding new things to a code that is not fully stable, expect updating the protocol
But to even get started we need devs to make it happen.

 

[zbizu]

hei gyuz i maed dis tu get ppl into otclinet:
http://otland.net/threads/238797

 

[WibbenZ]

I hope you do realize that this commit you made completely breaks the OT client, and makes it unusable.

.otmod and .otui files can't have tabs in them or else they won't load.

Except otmod and otui what other extensions require spaces?
I checked those two with notepad++ and they still have spaces in them, so the Lua files should be fine and with C++ it does not matter.

-- Edit;
Fail... checked the wrong directory haha but are there any other ones that I need to change aswell?

 

[Shadowsong]

I have tried combat as a normal player, and like I said, I haven't had much issues on normal Tibia servers. On non-custom clients, the only time I experience any lag is when trying to use bot features.

I've also played Necronia with no lag issues and that is built off of OT client.

I have gotten really bad unplayable lag on my own project, but I'd reserve that to poor optimization of our systems, and not a problem of the 'core' Tibia stuff.

My Specs:

(My specs are actually lower than the minimum needed to run league of legends, despite me playing it everyday)


The only point I am trying to make here, is that the OT Client in it's current state is not as bad as a lot of you are making it out to be, and I believe it would be worth while to develop it further and optimize it's code, rather than try to branch off of a new project or start from scratch.

try some combat as a player (not god, just a player)
just spawn 20 rats and shoot them with hailstorm rod
you will notice fps drop

try hunting on dragon lair full of lava for 5 minutes
you will notice how unplayable otclient is on hunting areas

my specs:
win7 x64
radeon hd 6870
i5 3570k
goodram DDR3 8GB 2400MHz CL11
?

We use OTC on Necronia and I can confirm that it's a bit fishy when it comes FPS and graphics in general. We had to do a lot of optimization on animations and light shaders in order to get it to be decently fluid without noticeable FPS drops in crowded areas and big fights, however, the most optimal way to make lights that work even on engines like DirectX9 without being problematic is to make them as vertex shaders. Currently we use fragment shaders and they still cause a ton of lag if a lot of light is displayed in a single area.

I noticed this especially in areas where tiles (for example: lava) give off light. Since each tile of lava gives off light, areas where there's a lot of lava will make the FPS drop by up to 95%, depending on your machine. On my new laptop, the FPS drops are not so bad (drops from 120 to 70), but on my old PC (2.0 ghz intel cpu, 1 gb nvidia gfx, 4 GB ram) the FPS drops were horrible, like, from 60~ to 5.

I think OTC uses a poor lighting algorithm by default as well, that one caused lags non stop before we changed to frag. shaders. :|

 

[Nu77]

I did some profiling and the light's drawing is not so bad, the only problem is if you have a lot of light source on the screen.
The thing which is more consuming so far is inside the map drawing. A lot of times i see a overhead which drop the FPS to 20~30 and maybe 3~5, this become more and more intensive if so many things are in need to be drawn on the screen.

 

[Baxnie]

As a former OTC developer i'll first say that this discussion about code style is not relevant.
There'll always be people saying that 4 spaces are better, or that tabs are better.
The important thing is that after chosen, you must stick to the code style. There are probably a few inconsistencies which should be fixed, but definitely code style must not be changed!

Secondly, here is the reason why OTC is not going further:

We use OTC on Necronia and I can confirm that it's a bit fishy when it comes FPS and graphics in general. We had to do a lot of optimization on animations and light shaders in order to get it to be decently fluid without noticeable FPS drops in crowded areas and big fights, however, the most optimal way to make lights that work even on engines like DirectX9 without being problematic is to make them as vertex shaders. Currently we use fragment shaders and they still cause a ton of lag if a lot of light is displayed in a single area.

These guys from Necronia solved the performance issue, which was #1 stated here by other people, however they did not share it with community.
They probably didn't share because either they spent money doing this or they think that by sharing, they'll help competition.
I'm not saying that they are right or wrong by not sharing, just stating that this is why OTC or any other client will not go much further.

If you want to change this, stop saying that it's too hard and someone else who knows how must do it.
Just get your hands dirty, it'll be hard, but who's going to win with this is you.
People here have enumerated what are the most important issues of OTC, just get them done if you're interested.

Oh, even if you're not a programmer, new art for example is something that is good for OTC. You can also contribute by making pull requests.

Good luck for you all.

 

[WibbenZ]

As a former OTC developer i'll first say that this discussion about code style is not relevant.
There'll always be people saying that 4 spaces are better, or that tabs are better.
The important thing is that after chosen, you must stick to the code style. There are probably a few inconsistencies which should be fixed, but definitely code style must not be changed!

Secondly, here is the reason why OTC is not going further:



These guys from Necronia solved the performance issue, which was #1 stated here by other people, however they did not share it with community.
They probably didn't share because either they spent money doing this or they think that by sharing, they'll help competition.
I'm not saying that they are right or wrong by not sharing, just stating that this is why OTC or any other client will not go much further.

If you want to change this, stop saying that it's too hard and someone else who knows how must do it.
Just get your hands dirty, it'll be hard, but who's going to win with this is you.
People here have enumerated what are the most important issues of OTC, just get them done if you're interested.

Oh, even if you're not a programmer, new art for example is something that is good for OTC. You can also contribute by making pull requests.

Good luck for you all.

Well to me code style is almost #1, I can't work with something I can't understand and to understand it you have to read up on it, same thing we did 0.x.
I rarely botherd to mess around with the source codes of 0.x, but I started more and more when 1.0 was released, mainly because I now could read the code.
If you ask me what I have right now on github is alot easier to understand then what is on the main repo(I have learned atleast some by just reading the little code I have the past few days).

We will never get rid of leechers, sadely.
Same thing goes for TFS, people fix things and they don't do anything to help others - but they want help fixing things that can help them.
I agree, nothing is right or wrong. While they might help us others they can also help other leechers, so you are correct nothing is right or wrong.

I don't know if you are talking to me, but when did I say this would be too hard?
The only thing I can remember right now is that I have asked that old devs come forward to help with things, things like new people would have to learn, ex how is the Player class built up and splitted with Lua and C++.
I have not said all of us should sit back and relax while the OTC devs do all the work, more or less the other way around.

Getting my hands dirty, well I guess I am xD
I try to spend the time I have 50/50, cleaning and trying to fix known bugs (as of right now the animations problem).
And if you read my first post and most likely others; I am not doing this for myself, otherwise I would not have started this thread, this is so we both have a great OT client and that we are ready for when Cipsoft kills the clients they have right now.

I try to make the best of what I have, I don't have the time or knowledge to write a completely new client and there for I wanna start by using OTC.
We have the flash source that we can use to base things off, ex grafics etc - thing we most likely did not have when OTC first started or even during most of the process.
And that is what im doing right now, starting to rewrite the grafics using the flash, we have a great thing to work with but as I have said before, the code you get from flash is really not something to be proud off, it's hard to understand and read.
Just replacing and finding missing parameters from the dat loader today took me about 1-1½ h.