Suggestion New set of standards for the OtLand community.

[J.Dre]

Hi, everyone. Today we're here to discuss a concern of many, including myself.

It's time we set some new standards for OtLand and the entire Open Tibia community, wouldn't you agree? In the past few years, we've seen a great community decline to historically low levels. We need to hit the reset button and change our ways before things become so unrecognizable, it's too late to change.

We can start with preventing the advertisement of donation-only Open Tibia servers that have been reset multiple times, with clear evidence of corruption, greed, manipulation, and exploitation of kids. The fact that "owners" of Open Tibia servers are allowed to continue advertising and discussing their servers on OtLand after half a dozen resets - with their last attempt being less than 3 months prior - is absolutely ridiculous. They do not care about the OtLand community. They're exploiting it for "donations." So called "donations" have completely destroyed what Open Tibia once stood for. I fear we will never see those days again. But, we can take measures to prevent it from becoming worse. What's the point of being an "Open Source" community if the only objective is to make money? The community does not need people who are copying old threads, relaunching without making any substantial effort to improve their project. These people are the embodiment of what is wrong with Open Tibia - making thousands of dollars, only to reset again in a matter of months. It's entirely unethical. How can anyone expect OtLand to survive when these acts are overlooked?

Donations themselves are not bad and are not the problem. The problem is we're allowing people to exploit the meaning of a donation, and it's happening throughout all of Open Tibia. What has happened? Where did the ambitious and passionate developers / owners go? Why must we be forced into affiliation with this? This has been something that utterly disgusts me every time I go through the discussion and advertisement section of Otland. The meaning of donation has been skewed and exploited so much, it's quite frankly shameful to even use.

We must act now and begin transitioning into a more ethical and sustainable way of advertising, developing, and hosting or ownership - a trend toward what is right by enforcing a new set of rules and disallowing the advertisement "donation focused" projects (with multiple resets) and nothing more to offer the community except shame. OtLand administration needs to step up and implement more rules or guidelines for the entire OtLand community. There are plenty of moderators to enforce new rules. What's the point of having moderators if there's nothing to enforce? It's important we understand that action is what changes things. It is our responsibility as senior members to prepare those who will one day replace us to carry on our legacy by acting as role models for future generations. To change the community will take time... In that I have no doubt. It will not be easy, nor will it be clean, but it is necessary. To change ourselves will take courage, and it is honestly our last hope if we want to save what's left of the Open Tibia community. We need to stop enabling those who are exploiting the Open Tibia community for personal gain and start enabling those who genuinely enjoy Open Tibia for what it is.

Please do not be afraid to post below and discuss what has been mentioned above. I've discussed this future with dozens of members over the years. You may notice I did not mention any project names or point out anyone in particular, but you know who and what I am talking about. There is no denying it anymore. It's time to face what we have done.

Let's set our egos aside for a moment and constructively work to change something.

Regards,
J.Dre

P.S. I would liked to have written more, but I'm going to be late for class. Please keep the trolling, spamming, and offensiveness to a minimum. This is a serious problem. Maturity is something we all can appreciate.

 

[Xikini]

Yeah, I don't like going back and forth in a debate. We need to collectively identify and resolve the issues at hand.

Then start on Step 1. "We just have to take the first step."

 

[J.Dre]

Then start on Step 1. "We just have to take the first step."

In a way, I've already begun: there's an identified issue in the main post and an introduction to a greater solution. My hope is that those who have discussed this with me on Skype will take a few moments to post their views. There have been some good discussions on Skype. There are many problems or issues and no single solution exists. That's why I suggested a single step toward a cleaner and better OtLand as foundation to a great resolve.

P.S. I'm currently in class but I'll be home to discuss more this evening.

 

[Leo32]

I still think you're all tunnel visioning and trying to solve a cultural issue in the OT community.
As @Red has mentioned, the culture at OTland is an inheritance that is driven from the Tibia community.
Cultural issues are notoriously difficult to shape; and otland is a minority in the OT community.

Your perfect utopia ideals are just unrealistic to ever some to fruition.​

I'm quite confused as to why others here don't see the benefits of expanding and breaking our leash to the OT and Tibia community.
I'll keep harping on about the flash client until something happens, because then our reliance on OT players or even Tibia players is gone.

We can take our projects elsewhere, these community issues are irrelevant as we can cultivate our own community and player-base through other avenues unrelated to Tibia or OTs.
You're asking for a viable solution... and well, IMHO this is it.

 

[J.Dre]

How is any of this unrealistic? All I've proposed is an effort to clean up OtLand as the initial step to a greater resolve. Is that so hard? There are many ways to go about this.

If you want it, you'll find a way. If not, you'll find an excuse.

 

[Codex NG]

How is any of this unrealistic? All I've proposed is an effort to clean up OtLand as the initial step to a greater resolve. Is that so hard? There are many ways to go about this.

If you want it, you'll find a way. If not, you'll find an excuse.

I just find it amusing a person who contributes absolutely 0 to this community has an issue with other people who do exactly the same thing.

Otland is just a stepping stone in the stairway of life, if your smart you will take the knowledge you have gained here and run with it, while utilizing it elsewhere and possibly return at a later date with something more to contribute.

This discussion thread is kind of pointless, in that this 'communty' is not a corporation, its a learning ground, while most won't see this as an opportunity to build a skill-set as a platform to further their education in various fields, for those that do will find this community an invaluable resource.

I know I have utilized a lot of what I have learned here over the years in my own real life business ventures or used it as platform to further my education and I hope others will do the same.

 

[Chechlowski]

I don't agree with the downward spiral you describe OpenTibia is in, thus I agree with the fact that the community has changed over the years but not necessarily to the worse, it just evolved. I think a big part of the reason the OTLand community is less active nowadays is because of Tibia's downward spiral - many years back Tibia looked to be a game with a rapidly growing playerbase but unfortunately due to poor management and a changing online game industry they have only been losing players since, hence the lower activity on OTLand because the majority of people who come here comes from Tibia, and older members who leave OTLand are no longer being replaced with new ones.

I think in order to re-establish the OTLand community's fruitness we need to focus on evolving beyond Tibia's limits, we can no longer follow Cipsoft's poor choice of path. OTLand is not about making money on cheap real map servers, its about sharing a passion for game development - therefore I propose/suggest that we consider opening a new set of boards where people on a wider spectrum may discuss game development outside of OpenTibia, we could also introduce certain awards such as:

• Project of the month
• Contributor of the month
• Community member of the month
• .. and so forth ..

These are only examples of what could encourage people to take new initiatives, it could be determined by a jury and/or votes. Hopefully it can also attract new members from outside the Tibia world to join the community - wouldn't that be really great? However, I'm thankful for OTLand's existence and I hope to see the community evolve into something even greater since I intend to stay here, and also please refrain from bashing on OTLand for not being what it used to be - everything changes.

 

[J.Dre]

I don't agree with the downward spiral you describe OpenTibia is in, thus I agree with the fact that the community has changed over the years but not necessarily to the worse, it just evolved. I think a big part of the reason the OTLand community is less active nowadays is because of Tibia's downward spiral - many years back Tibia looked to be a game with a rapidly growing playerbase but unfortunately due to poor management and a changing online game industry they have only been losing players since, hence the lower activity on OTLand because the majority of people who come here comes from Tibia, and older members who leave OTLand are no longer being replaced with new ones.

I think in order to re-establish the OTLand community's fruitness we need to focus on evolving beyond Tibia's limits, we can no longer follow Cipsoft's poor choice of path. OTLand is not about making money on cheap real map servers, its about sharing a passion for game development - therefore I propose/suggest that we consider opening a new set of boards where people on a wider spectrum may discuss game development outside of OpenTibia, we could also introduce certain awards such as:

• Project of the month
• Contributor of the month
• Community member of the month
• .. and so forth ..

These are only examples of what could encourage people to take new initiatives, it could be determined by a jury and/or votes. Hopefully it can also attract new members from outside the Tibia world to join the community - wouldn't that be really great? However, I'm thankful for OTLand's existence and I hope to see the community evolve into something even greater since I intend to stay here, and also please refrain from bashing on OTLand for not being what it used to be - everything changes.

I don't see it as a downward spiral, either. Not exactly. It would be too simplistic to suggest such a view. It's more of a processive motion, but one that instead of growing in a particular direction, is venturing into an irreversible phase. Some have told me it's already too late, but I don't see it as such. The community evolves more so each day and we have the ability to shape its formation.

And in regards to your suggestion, I think it may be a very nice idea. I've actually thought it would be of great help after we've given further support to a stronger foundation for which the future of OtLand may rest upon. And when all has settled, such suggestions - as you've provided - do seem like viable solution(s) for sustainability.

In the end, it's not about what I think. Don't let your personal feelings get in the way of progress. This thread was not made to revolve around my ideals. It was created as a means of opening discussion with the community, so that we may voice our opinions on how to handle the recessive motion our community has fallen into. Several members have come to me on Skype and have discussed with me many great ideas. I hope we continue to see more of these ideas shared within this thread. We all want something similar.

 

[Deleted member 49793]

I don't agree with the downward spiral you describe OpenTibia is in, thus I agree with the fact that the community has changed over the years but not necessarily to the worse, it just evolved. I think a big part of the reason the OTLand community is less active nowadays is because of Tibia's downward spiral - many years back Tibia looked to be a game with a rapidly growing playerbase but unfortunately due to poor management and a changing online game industry they have only been losing players since, hence the lower activity on OTLand because the majority of people who come here comes from Tibia, and older members who leave OTLand are no longer being replaced with new ones.

I think in order to re-establish the OTLand community's fruitness we need to focus on evolving beyond Tibia's limits, we can no longer follow Cipsoft's poor choice of path. OTLand is not about making money on cheap real map servers, its about sharing a passion for game development - therefore I propose/suggest that we consider opening a new set of boards where people on a wider spectrum may discuss game development outside of OpenTibia, we could also introduce certain awards such as:

• Project of the month
• Contributor of the month
• Community member of the month
• .. and so forth ..

These are only examples of what could encourage people to take new initiatives, it could be determined by a jury and/or votes. Hopefully it can also attract new members from outside the Tibia world to join the community - wouldn't that be really great? However, I'm thankful for OTLand's existence and I hope to see the community evolve into something even greater since I intend to stay here, and also please refrain from bashing on OTLand for not being what it used to be - everything changes.

This is an awesome idea, however I think the awards should be chosen by perhaps Mark himself, or an appointed mod, otherwise it becomes a popularity contest.

Awesome idea though, the issue is sometimes it feels otland isn't cared much about anymore by the one's running it. I may be completely wrong, I just remember more of the stuff you mentioned going on back 5 years ago when otland was fighting against otfans.

 

[whitevo]

So what direction you want it take?
towards better Open Tibia servers and less "kids abuse"
or towards growing out of tibia at all?

 

[J.Dre]

So what direction you want it take?
towards better Open Tibia servers and less "kids abuse"
or towards growing out of tibia at all?

Are you asking me? Or is this just a general question for anyone to answer.

 

[whitevo]

Are you asking me? Or is this just a general question for anyone to answer.

general. But doesn't mean you are not part of anyone xD

 

[Codex NG]

I just find it amusing a person who contributes absolutely 0 to this community has an issue with other people who do exactly the same thing.

On the Internet we may be anything or anyone we wish. It's funny how you chose to be stupid. Of course, without people like you, we would have no one to laugh at. So, you do serve a purpose whether you like it or not. It is unfortunate that you continue to intentionally start arguments throughout OtLand. I suggest taking up a new hobby or finding a significant other.

For some one who 'tries' to come off as an intelligent educated person your response to a fragment of my statement in this discussion is very childish and idiotic.

My statement is true, I have never seen you contribute anything to the people of this community other than a bump in your own thread(s), while your response is something that of a 1st grader would say.

 

[J.Dre]

For some one who 'tries' to come off as an intelligent educated person your response to a fragment of my statement in this discussion is very childish and idiotic.

My statement is true, I have never seen you contribute anything to the people of this community other than a bump in your own thread(s), while your response is something that of a 1st grader would say.

Why must you always start an argument? Do you not have anything better to contribute? It is people like yourself who are setting a bad example for new members of the community with such a negative personality as pure projection of one's own self onto others. And it seems you have a bad habit of doing so. Please stop.

 

[Beo]

Since the admins here don't care about open tibia any more I'd suggest building a new community

 

[whitevo]

Since the admins here don't care about open tibia any more I'd suggest building a new community

@Ninja does!

But as long as you guys still keep fighting with eachother and trying to find who to blame, I don't think he will do anything.

 

[Beo]

@Ninja does!

But as long as you guys still keep fighting with eachother and trying to find who to blame, I don't think he will do anything.

Admins

Not mods
I know the mods here quite well - or used to - and I know they have been extremely helpful in the past.

 

[HalfAway]

Since the admins here don't care about open tibia any more I'd suggest building a new community

Providing updates and futher development on TFS 1.X sounds like they care to me.
Closing down the marketplace and making it illegal to sell OpenTibia resources on OTLand.

Building a new commnuity would only result in splitting the current userbase even more and the existence of OpenTibia users would get lower.
OTLand has been here for years, lets hope it stays alive for many more years.

I can't understand why we need to blame this on anyone?
We are all here for the same reason, because we enjoy OpenTibia/Tibia right?

 

[Deleted member 49793]

Providing updates and futher development on TFS 1.X sounds like they care to me.
Closing down the marketplace and making it illegal to sell OpenTibia resources on OTLand.

Building a new commnuity would only result in splitting the current userbase even more and the existence of OpenTibia users would get lower.
OTLand has been here for years, lets hope it stays alive for many more years.

I can't understand why we need to blame this on anyone?
We are all here for the same reason, because we enjoy OpenTibia/Tibia right?

Perfectly said HalfAway. Splitting the ot community up more by making another forum is a poor idea, its already a small community, but lets keep the small community whole.

 

[Beo]

Providing updates and futher development on TFS 1.X sounds like they care to me.
Closing down the marketplace and making it illegal to sell OpenTibia resources on OTLand.

Building a new commnuity would only result in splitting the current userbase even more and the existence of OpenTibia users would get lower.
OTLand has been here for years, lets hope it stays alive for many more years.

I can't understand why we need to blame this on anyone?
We are all here for the same reason, because we enjoy OpenTibia/Tibia right?

Where is the admin activity? Last tfs update was may? Looking by the news. Last announcement was Christmas and the board is in a shit state of useless posts, wrong forum topics and insults everywhere. Pointing out especially the twifysoft board.

The community has gone to shit. There's a few people left that are actually decent people and soon enough that will come to an end.

The forum is inactive so even if there are commits to the github they need to be posted here for activity wise. Which I don't know if there are because I don't check.

I don't just blame the staff I blame the community as well. Old and new. It's everyone's fault.

I've believed for a couple of years that a fresh start would pick open tibia community up again the same way it did when people moved from otfans to otland.

 

[HalfAway]

Where is the admin activity? Last tfs update was may? Looking by the news. Last announcement was Christmas and the board is in a shit state of useless posts, wrong forum topics and insults everywhere. Pointing out especially the twifysoft board.

The community has gone to shit. There's a few people left that are actually decent people and soon enough that will come to an end.

The forum is inactive so even if there are commits to the github they need to be posted here for activity wise. Which I don't know if there are because I don't check.

I don't just blame the staff I blame the community as well. Old and new. It's everyone's fault.

I've believed for a couple of years that a fresh start would pick open tibia community up again the same way it did when people moved from otfans to otland.

According to this news they state that the development moved to GitHub:
https://otland.net/threads/moving-forward.198835/

You could easily visit github to check the progress if you're interested.
The posts about The Forgotten Server you find in news is the stable releases before they move on to TFS 1.2 from 1.1 for example.
As you can see here the development is in full swing.
https://github.com/otland/forgottenserver/commits/master

How do we do to make the community more active then?
How has the community gone to shit, this is just a bad argument without valid statements.