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OtLand Please do not bite the newcomers - Newcomers Welcome Policy

Dear Otland members,

For some time we have observed decreasing interest in OpenTibia world in general, Otland forum (as well as other OT-related community boards), Otserv/TFS servers and OpenTibia-hacking in general. It is obvious that Tibia is becoming less popular all the time and the community is expanding(?) slowly. We have few developers on whom OT world almost entirely depends on. Even they are sometimes retiring and there are no new contributors that would continue their efforts (although we always welcome, accept and appreciate new developers!).

However, the number of daily new user registrations is constantly growing (and these are not users we banned :cool:). The problem is what happens to the new users? I believe that the biggest obstackle to entering the OpenTibia world and our great community is the lack of sufficient information. You might notice that most of our users are those who first experienced Tibia some time ago already. There is no easy newcomer guide here. If you haven't heard of OpenTibia before, you'd probably have difficulties with starting up an OTS now. Still, new users can and do post questions on our support board (and other).

The problem is, some users disrespectfuly treat the newcomers and their obviously "newbie" questions. "RTFM", "LMGTFY" and "use the search function" are the most popular answers, often written by many users in one thread. It's obviously not helping much. There is also another frustrating problem with that. As Talaturen pointed out, when you actually search it, you will just find ~10 other thread on the same topic... with the same answers: "RTFM", "LMGTFY" and "use the search function". You can imagine what it leads to. This is also the kind of action that leads to closing the community. If Otland were a business, we would be very successful! This is called "raising barriers for market entry". But we are *NOT* a business and we do *NOT* want that. We want just the opposite.

Obviously, there are users that did not put any effort into looking for an answer and simply want it from us, best on an ornamented sheet of paper, first-class air mail delivered. In most cases you can tell between that type of users and the true newcomers. The first ones are usually "new" because we have already banned them many times. We will keep banning them for trolling our community, but we want to be open for the real new users.

Therefore, we want to introduce a sort of Newcomers Welcome Policy. "One of the most frequent criticisms of the open source community is lack of friendly support for newcomers." (Wikipedia) We want to eliminate that and hopefully let our community grow and increase interest in OpenTibia. It does not depend only on development of TFS, Otserv, OT tools like map editors and AAC scripts (although we know it does). Do not blame it on the developers of most popular examples of these types of software even if they abandoned their work. They have already done something. You CAN and you SHOULD do something too! You can be nice to the new people and don't bite them! You can also start developing your own stuff and share it with us :)

The Ubuntu Forums and LinuxQuestions.org have introduced "no RTFM" policies to promote a welcoming atmosphere already some time ago.
RTFM [and] "Go look on google" are two inappropriate responses to a question. If you don't know the answer or don't wish to help, please say nothing instead of brushing off someone's question. Politely showing someone how you searched or obtained the answer to a question is acceptable, even encouraged.

Ubuntu Forums said:
If you wish to remind a user to use search tools or other resources when they have asked a question you feel is basic or common, please be very polite. Any replies for help that contain language disrespectful towards the user asking the question, i.e. "STFU" or "RTFM" are unacceptable and will not be tolerated.
This is what we introduce as our forum rule as of now. It will be added to the Rules page soon. Basically, if you want to just write one of those unfriendly and unhelpful replies, please do not write anything. They are not nice and will be removed and if abused, all our general warning and punishment rules apply.

The most important message is above, but we are also concerned about shaping the community in a right way. We are a relatively small one and we cannot afford splitting into smaller ones (you can probably see what happened to new forums that tried to achieve that). This is why I want to make a side not about Tibia 8.60, private SVN access, "TFS 0.4", "r.3777" and anything connected to that. You know this version is not supported. It's not even released. And there are reasons for that. They are unstable, they do not work. You are having tons of problems with them, and that's understandable - they do not work (you got it now?). We did not invent the private subversion to make money, or make it difficult for your to obtain the latest version. We wanted to limit the amount of problems we knew you will have. Unfortunately, due to inactivity of development in the 0.3 branch, the development versions started to be widely used despite of the bugs (we understand that, how long could you wait!). Fortunately, this is over now. The 0.2 branch is much more advanced, there is a publically released 0.3.7 versions that is supported on our Support Board (as you know that private SVN versions are not!). We do not ban support for these old versions to piss you off. We cannot afford making another branch of a 2 years old piece of software just to fix the bugs that have already been fixed in the new versions of TFS. (This is where the splitting of our community and efforts would occur.) This is why we would like you to move on and use the newest versions of TFS. There are also new version of bots if you players really need to cheat and you want them too (the most popular reason for using 8.60 is that this is the last version that Elfbot/TibiaBot NG supports). And because all of you (old members) love the 8.60 versions so much, newcomers are convinced that it's for some reason better to use it, which is horribly wrong! They won't get any support and will not get anywhere.

There is also another problem I would like to discuss and I am sure you are already aware of that. During past few years Tibia has become deeply "commercialised business". Some or most(?) of you are trying to make money on it. There is a difference between getting donations (even for your work if players want to donate more than the cost of running the server) and making money on it, especially in case of Download'n'Run servers. OpenTibia community is supposed to be "open", Otserv and TFS are "free" (both meanings) software and the whole idea was once non-profit. We cannot force you to change it, but it will crash one day... You cannot keep selling pixels (yes, you are not accepting donations, you're just selling virtual stuff) in a 2D, 15 years old game forever! Especially when you don't add any value yourself (Download'n'Run). You have heard "rumours" (confirmed) that we might/will close the Marketplace board (which creation was controversial in the first place). We cannot control what you do but we won't make it easier for you to destroy the initial idea of opennes.

It's a community, be part of it and respect it. If it's free, it doesn't mean you own the place.

Please respect the newcomers.

Best Regards,
Don Daniello
- on behalf of the Otland Staff

(This was initially a piece of news about the forum rules change, but I used this moment to point out some additonal matters you should think about.)
 
+1 for the RTFM and the friends (mostly STFW "search the fucking web" -> "use the search button"), they're overused and should be avoided.
 
This is no time for OpenTibia to die! Not when so much potential has been opened up by OTClient.


Fuck real map servers. They're like morning glory vines... Killing all the flowers and vegetables in your garden, and ruining your fence.
It feels worse than the cancer that is killing /b/ :(

I know I've been no saint with my treatment of the neophytes and the inept. I'll do my best to foster a more patient and helpful demeanor. I've put in far too many hours hobby coding and helping the noobs here to just sit back and watch the whole community atrophy and decay.

To quote some corny ass 90s movie {Dangerous Minds}, "You have to rage against the dying of the light!"
 
Im playing real tibia, but i know what OTs are like and OTs WONT DIE NOW!
Especcially not if Lordaeron comes online ^^
 
I don't think that'll ever happen though, people play 8.6 because they want client with working elfbot.. Sad but true
 
It's starting to become a reality, real map servers are actually killing open-tibia.

People are becoming more interested into making the same god damn 8.6 real map servers,
while people are being less interested in playing open-tibia because there is nothing but stupid-ass real map servers.

Perhaps if someone like Xinn did away with all the 8.6 real map servers on his server list (let's face it, it's the most widely used) instead of promoting his real maps to hell, they would die real quick.
Red
 
It's really sad, these download and run 8.6 real maps are getting a ton of players while custom maps which people work really hard to get done and up running gets barely no players at all and die out quickly all because people seem to LOVE 8.6 real maps. I'm a custom map lover, i love to explore new areas and quests but it's no fun with the low amount of players they usually get :/
 
Perhaps if someone like Xinn did away with all the 8.6 real map servers on his server list (let's face it, it's the most widely used) instead of promoting his real maps to hell, they would die real quick.
Red

And lose servers that pay ~$300 per month to adverise? NEVER!
 
There is also another problem I would like to discuss and I am sure you are already aware of that. During past few years Tibia has become deeply "commercialised business". Some or most(?) of you are trying to make money on it. There is a difference between getting donations (even for your work if players want to donate more than the cost of running the server) and making money on it, especially in case of Download'n'Run servers. OpenTibia community is supposed to be "open", Otserv and TFS are "free" (both meanings) software and the whole idea was once non-profit. We cannot force you to change it, but it will crash one day... You cannot keep selling pixels (yes, you are not accepting donations, you're just selling virtual stuff) in a 2D, 15 years old game forever! Especially when you don't add any value yourself (Download'n'Run). You have heard "rumours" (confirmed) that we might/will close the Marketplace board (which creation was controversial in the first place). We cannot control what you do but we won't make it easier for you to destroy the initial idea of opennes.

that's hypocrisy coming from who sells private access to private svn
and NO, no are NOT trying to get less problems, you are trying to get money
 
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that's hypocrisy coming from who sells private access to private svn
and NO, no are NOT trying to get less problems, you are trying to get money
if you think that we only allow access to the Private SVN if your a Donator to make money then you are 100% wrong, the Private SVN is used to keep track of the current development of TFS, the reason why it is private is because most of those versions aren't stable, hence not ready to be released to the public, or do you really want your server crashing every now and then?
We allow Donators access to it because we also need testers to see if everything is going ok, but if we open it to the public and everyone uses it, we'll have more threads saying "plz tfs 0.4 doenst work, help fast rep++" then you can count, which will only hurt more then help
 
if you think that we only allow access to the Private SVN if your a Donator to make money then you are 100% wrong, the Private SVN is used to keep track of the current development of TFS, the reason why it is private is because most of those versions aren't stable, hence not ready to be released to the public, or do you really want your server crashing every now and then?
We allow Donators access to it because we also need testers to see if everything is going ok, but if we open it to the public and everyone uses it, we'll have more threads saying "plz tfs 0.4 doenst work, help fast rep++" then you can count, which will only hurt more then help

if you are really worried about support threads, sell official support, not the complete stuff, as a illegal tibia program did some time ago
and why not to have more "testers"?
 
we are not here to sell anything...
too many testers will lead to repeated bug reports and if we open it to the public, 95% of the people would be more interested in just running it on their server instead of being worried about reporting bugs, hence why it was left closed for donators only
 
if you are really worried about support threads, sell official support, not the complete stuff, as a illegal tibia program did some time ago
and why not to have more "testers"?
Can you rephrase that?
 
Had a hard time understanding it too, I think he means that we should have paid official support for TFS
or smthing like that, not really sure either o_O

that's it

we are not here to sell anything...
too many testers will lead to repeated bug reports and if we open it to the public, 95% of the people would be more interested in just running it on their server instead of being worried about reporting bugs, hence why it was left closed for donators only

well, I'm not sure but people may be interested in reporting bugs as they will want (or need) them fixed
 
that's it
well, I'm not sure but people may be interested in reporting bugs as they will want (or need) them fixed

The term donation, have you heard of it? Donations are given without return consideration, OtLand isn't forcing anyone to buy donator. In return you just so happen to get private svn access and other benefits to say thank you. Well that's how I see it anyway.
 
Well, for people who don't know too much about OT or programming at all access to prv svn can do only more harm I guess
0.2 is intended to be able to clone Cipbia right? So all the realmappers should be able to "achieve" everything with it anyway. And if someone whants more he can simply add missing features if he can.
It is sooooo annoying that they "donate" just to grab latest development rev and then cry that it is somehow unstable
And they do it on Polish Board or in support using language worse than spitted out by google translate.

But lets return back to the main topic:
I don't want to harm newcomers, but if I can see that his question was answered few times in his topic and he still cries that means that he just want to earn money without even trying to learn anything. And I would preffer to perma ignore people like that.
But if someone shows at least a bit of will to learn then we should somehow reward him, not really by doing everything for him or sth, but explaining things he have problems with the way he will be able to handle them but still need to learn is probably the best way.

And we should find a way to teach people that solving too common problems takes less time while them use google and brain than just post on forum
 
Really...?

Without reading all the answers, I will answer upon the first post and not try to rage.

OTland is the leading community for open tibia and if you'd stop, open tibia would stop. Atleast in its best ways.
All credits for that and we all are thankfull for that. However, do not speak about us only when you, the moderators, are a problem aswell.

I do respect you all, but I also get frustrated when you write in the way you do. I canno't speak for the mass banishments that I have seen as I don't know the reasons even if it feels wrong that main characters of open tibia are being banned. What I can speak for are 3 things:

1. OTland is not perfect in the way the forum are built, therefor alot of new people doesn't know where to write and look, Ikea and iPhone is a perfect example to see that easy and simple is the best way. I can as for example improve alot, so could others. But if im gonna spend the time, I wanna know that it might be worth it. Some people are ofcourse stupid or children, we canno't count those for these facts.

2. You are speaking about other communities that wont succed, would you like to know why? Your name/forum will get banished and OTland will work against you if you make anything small that OTland doesn't like. OTland wont even try to speak to the owners, they will just act. I got a request and I created a new great open tibia forum, and guess what? OTland did what it could to stop me instead of talking to me. The forum was about to become to great I guess? Some big OTland people joined and loved the new nice personal community. The hosters computer crashed and Right now, I don't like to have a war between communities and spend my time on that. My guess is that OTland mods doesn't understand why we need other communities and that new communities will simply split open tibia. If so, then your right and wrong, however, no other forum would stand a chance if OTland was perfect. Kinda simple.

3. Split the community? Yeah, I can agree. But how come OTland wont make 1 great stable distro that every made script and things will work for? Instead, you make different free versions, different paid versions with different functions aswells as bugs. Thats what I call a split community. Does Apple make like others with their phone? No. They stick with 1 version and update it. Guess what? They rule the market.

In other words, cut the damn BS, except that, keep up the other good works and the rule/policy will hopefully be something in the right direction. Feel free to correct me where im wrong.

Kind Regards,
Eldin.
 
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