Should OtLand Open New OtServerlist site?

[Jordi Ek]

Since Otserverlist if full corrupted in my opinion and many other people thinking the same.
Should OtLand try open new full clear site where otservers could be listed and players can see clearly every single information of those Ot Servers?

What you think ?

 

[Tarek]

There are already a few alternatives, why open an another one? Just contribute to one of the few already existing ones.

Quick search gave me these;
YourGamingDude - The new Open Tibia Servers list (https://otland.net/threads/yourgamingdude-the-new-open-tibia-servers-list.265021/)
Tibian - An OTServ List for 2020 (https://otland.net/threads/tibian-an-otserv-list-for-2020.269641/)
Tibia Live - Open Tibia Server List [work in progress] (https://otland.net/threads/tibia-live-open-tibia-server-list-work-in-progress.262321/

 

[Evil Puncker]

I love otland

 

[Whateverido]

Big YES for otland, since otservlist is so corrupted, Xinn doesn't give a f*ck, he banned permanently alot of servers, since they may break the rule or they had problem between them so it would be fresh start for servers that permanently banned, besides i want to see something "new" this otservlist doesn't change over years, looks like someone take the money and doing nothing with the website, better to see someone new and give them donation and see the results than see this otservlist that not change over years so much waste of money.

 

[Mr. Greyshade]

What's corrupted about OTServlist?

 

[BahamutxD]

I'd rather to not have a server list at all than using otservlist. This thing is made to promote the big ones and hurt the small servers. Not to mention the pay to visibility and other stories we keep hearing all the time about fake numbers.

Their search/filter options are lacking. Can't filter by exp rate or custom/RL/RPG/others servers... It is 2020 and this thing looks like it came from the last century.

 

[Merrok]

Should OtLand try open new full clear site where otservers could be listed and players can see clearly every single information of those Ot Servers?

should they? yes
will they? no

Actually no to both. Or to be exact: It is none of our business.
If you want change, don't ask others to do the work. Do it yourself.
Unless of course it is about something like an existing project being changed and you are giving productive feedback.
But in this case you just want someone to make something.

As I already stated in the other active thread about this topic, I do not support otservlist and I find it ugly and bad in general.
I simply do not support saying "should company xyz make abc" either. Because it isn't any of your business.

A discussion about otservlist or certain aspects of it in general would be more productive

I'd rather to not have a server list at all than using otservlist.

That.

 

[oen432]

Imagine Server List within OTClient, data would be fetched from OTLand where you can add server by posting in Advertisement forum.
Joining given server would download the client and files so you can join from Last Connceted/Favorite servers tab.
Each server could have quick description that will be visible in the client plus link to the server thread on OTLand where more details would be posted.

If only Cipsoft client could be dropped entirely

 

[xinn]

What's corrupted about OTServlist?

I will tell you what is corrupted about otservlist. Basically there are a lot of kids here who wants to make an easy money. And I'm the gate keeper who stands behind their spoofing servers and money they want to get. They think that servers like utorion or any other top servers on the list are there because the owners are paying me a lot of money to be able to spoof (fake a number of players online). They can't understand that these servers are there because of the hard work of their owners. They can't understand that for some people those servers are full time jobs and they don't just download a TFS, read a tutorial how to compile it on debian and run it with a hope to get hundreds of players. They actually put a lot of work and heart into them. But you will rarely spot those people here - they are busy with their servers and their own communities.

There is also a group of people who already tried to fake a number of players on their servers (so the servers attracts more people - something called a snowball effect) and got banned or perma-banned.
Those people will try to manipulate others into thinking that I'm corrupted, that I ask server owners to pay me for unbanning them et cetera. In the past I've asked many, many times to send ANY proof of such alleged activity - obviously none was posted. I've been offered thousands of euros in the past to allow certain spoof mechanisms and I found it very offensive - that was also one of the reasons why some people/servers were banned. I come from a country where corruption used to be something normal and I always hated it. For those people a new popular server list means a fresh-start, that's why they will push for it.

The third group are people who simply don't understand what fair competition is and they don't understand rules or simply don't want to follow them. Those people will post threads that they were banned without any valid reason. They will also ask me to give them the most detailed ban reason they can get despite they know what they did wrong. Of course if the reason is simply, such as counting xlogged characters as active ones - no problem. However, when they log in fake characters, they ask publicly HOW I caught them. And obviously I can't answer such questions since that gives an edge to this group of server owners. If they knew how I caught them, they would change their spoofing mechanisms to be undetectable in a future. That's also why server owners who uses very sophisticated spoofing mechanisms are perma banned. They are a cancer to this community. They devaluate a legit work of other server owners and I can't allow this.

The last group of people are those who wants some kind of changes. Some changes can be good (like a layout, more statistics) some not (like a default sorting method). For example there are some people who try to push for a change to default sorting mechanism. They accuse otservlist of not helping a new servers and they want a change of a default sorting method to a "vote mechanism" however they completely don't understand a trade-offs. They don't understand that this would be a popularity contest, even easier to manipulate. They also don't understand that what THEY want can be totally different than what otservlist's visitors want. They also don't know the history of the tibia lists - otservlist competed with such lists in the past and well... those lists are gone, otservlist isn't. It's similar behaviour to one which I see very often here on otland. There are some server owners asking other server owners how their servers should look like. Instead of asking potential players, they ask a group of people which most likely will never even join their server about how it should look like. Total nonsense.

At the end I want you to remember something. It takes 10x more time to debunk fake informations than to create ones. That's one of the reasons I gave up defending myself here on otland - it takes too much time. Those who uses logic doesn't need such explanations.

 

[Evil Puncker]

The last group of people are those who wants some kind of changes. Some changes can be good (like a layout, more statistics)

yes, please

 

[Mr. Greyshade]

I will tell you what is corrupted about otservlist. Basically there are a lot of kids here who wants to make an easy money. And I'm the gate keeper who stands behind their spoofing servers and money they want to get. They think that servers like utorion or any other top servers on the list are there because the owners paying me a lot of money to be able to spoof (fake a number of players online). They can't understand that these servers are there because of the hard work of their owners. They can't understand that for some people those servers are full time jobs and they don't just download a TFS, read a tutorial how to compile it on debian and run it with a hope to get hundreds of players. They actually put a lot of work and heart into them. But you will rarely spot those people here - they are busy with their servers and their own communities.

There is also a group of people who already tried to fake a number of players on their servers (so the servers attracts more people - something called a snowball effect) and got banned or perma-banned.
Those people will try to manipulate others into thinking that I'm corrupted, that I ask server owners to pay me for unbanning them et cetera. In the past I've asked many, many times to send ANY proof of such alleged activity - obviously none was posted. I've been offered thousands of euros in the past to allow certain spoof mechanisms and I found it very offensive - that was also one of the reasons why some people/servers were banned. I come from a country where corruption used to be something normal and I always hated it. For those people a new popular server list means a fresh-start, that's why they will push for it.

The third group are people who simply don't understand what fair competition is and they don't understand rules or simply don't want to follow them. Those people will post threads that they were banned without any valid reason. They will also ask me to give them the most detailed ban reason they can get despite they know what they did wrong. Of course if the reason is simply, such as counting xlogged characters as active ones - no problem. However, when they log in fake characters, they ask publicly HOW I caught them. And obviously I can't answer such questions since that gives an edge to this group of server owners. If they knew how I caught them, they would change their spoofing mechanisms to be undetectable in a future. That's also why server owners who uses very sophisticated spoofing mechanisms are perma banned. They are a cancer to this community. They devaluate a legit work of other server owners and I can't allow this.

The last group of people are those who wants some kind of changes. Some changes can be good (like a layout, more statistics) some not (like a default sorting method). For example there are some people who try to push for a change to default sorting mechanism. They accuse otservlist of not helping a new servers and they want a change of a default sorting method to a "vote mechanism" however they completely don't understand a trade-offs. They don't understand that this would be a population contest, even easier to manipulate. They also don't understand that what THEY want can be totally different than what otservlist's visitors want. They also don't know the history of the tibia lists - otservlist competed with such lists in the past and well... those lists are gone, otservlist isn't. It's similar behaviour to one which I see very often here on otland. There are some server owners asking other server owners how their servers should look like. Instead of asking potential players, they ask a group of people which most likely will never even join their server about how it should look like. Total nonsense.

At the end I want you to remember something. It takes 10x more time to debunk fake informations than to create ones. That's one of the reasons I gave up defending myself here on otland - it takes too much time. Those who uses logic doesn't need such explanations.

Keep up the good work, there are people that really appreciate it, even if OTLand would like you to believe otherwise.

OTServlist has actually had pretty sick updates the past years. Around 1.5 years ago the default sorting option became points, which is a combination of players online, how stable the server is, and how long the server has been on the list and probably some more things. As a result, long term servers will remain high up on the list, and gets much more players daily - resulting in the server being alive for longer, which is a good thing for both players and server owners.

Charts were also added recently, which is a really good addition - which you should also have on your own site, you could probably improve them by having better charts, with info that lasts more than just a month.

And I think the main point of otservlist, I know people like to talk shit about that, but after so many years of uptime, he's still doing a great job at banning cheaters and that's a really important part for such a website.

 

[Merrok]

Uiiii lot's of stuff to quote.
Aaaaand go!

And I'm the gate keeper who stands behind their spoofing servers and money they want to get.

Calling yourself that at the beginning of the post is not smart. You seem arrogant and like a dictator-ish guy.
I get your point, it's just not smart.

Basically there are a lot of kids here who wants to make an easy money.

Very true. Very sad. Very pathetic.

They think that servers like utorion or any other top servers on the list are there because the owners paying me a lot of money to be able to spoof (fake a number of players online). They can't understand that these servers are there because of the hard work of their owners.

I don't think that many people think that. That's rather the minority I guess.
But the hard-work part is also not completely true. But yeah in general I guess you are right. Don't wanna be picky here with those few sentences.
Got more sentences where I can

They actually put a lot of work and heart into them.

I do agree with that in parts. Yeah people definitely don't get the amount of work something like that is, and can be very disrespectful especially to people who do this without earning any profit or just volunteering. They even see it as a service even though it, in many cases (not all), isnt.
But I wouldn't be too sure about the heart part with some of those server owners...

In the past I've asked many, many times to send ANY proof of such alleged activity - obviously none was posted.

I have seen many reports. Of course proofing it is hard. But giving your reason for the allegation can already help and give enough incentive to at least look into it.

I've been offered thousands of euros in the past to allow certain spoof mechanisms and I found it very offensive - that was also one of the reasons why some people/servers were banned.

Thanks for that

For those people a new popular server list means a fresh-start, that's why they will push for it.

Now that's not true. Some server owners might think that, but in general I think many people just don't like the website and if it was improved or evolved over time, it might give people less room to think it was corrupt as well. And in general less space to criticize it.
You cannot blame a reputation of something like that purely on others. That's just being ignorant.
You have to see that a reputation like that doesn't come from it's own. It is more your responsibility and thereby your fault than anybody elses.

The third group are people who simply don't understand what fair competition is and they don't understand rules or simply don't want to follow them.

Yeah those exist...

The last group of people are those who wants some kind of changes. Some changes can be good (like a layout, more statistics) some not (like a default sorting method).

Ayyyy finally found my group. Was already asking where I fit in
And then I read further into it and noticed, nope. That ain't me either.
And nobody said "a default sorting method"
Maybe think of something not default? You cannot give people a huge list and expect them to be able to read through everything and remember everything. Like what the fuck? As I already said, it's easier reading through an allergen list.

At the end I want you to remember something. It takes 10x more time to debunk fake informations than to create ones. That's one of the reasons I gave up defending myself here on otland - it takes too much time. Those who uses logic doesn't need such explanations.

That's the sentence you should have opened with and probably the only sentence you should have written
And putting people into groups... Also maybe not the best idea. In the end I was looking for my group and thought I found it. But reading more into the last group, I couldn't identify myself with it.
You won't be able to put people into groups. That's basically what racism does. It doesn't work.
WHERE IS MY GROUP GOD DAMNIT?!?!?!?!? :-((((

To be honest, I am surprised you are still active at all. I'd probably have given up at this point and just said fuck it. It's over. It's in the past.
So respect for that at least.

 

[Source]

If you want change, don't ask others to do the work. Do it yourself.

You called?

Open Tibia Server Lists (https://opentibia.fandom.com/wiki/Open_Tibia_Server_Lists)

 

[xinn]

And I'm the gate keeper who stands behind their spoofing servers and money they want to get.

Gatekeeping is a common phrase used in a gaming world (especially in games where some kind of leagues are introduced). Most of us are here because of the game so pun intended. Too bad you thought about a dictator

I don't think that many people think that. That's rather the minority I guess.

Well, circa 10~ emails weekly about that. Especially from those who got banned for faking the number of players online.

Of course proofing it is hard.

It's very easy. Someone can show a money transfer for that and if I wouldnt be able to proof (for example by showing that I've never received such payment via for example paypal) than it would mean that there is something fishy going on.

Now that's not true. Some server owners might think that, but in general I think many people just don't like the website and if it was improved or evolved

I've been talking about those who are perma banned. They have incentives to push for new server lists. The incentive for them is fresh-start which equals free advertisement.
The only thing which prevents some people from breaking the rules are punishments.

And nobody said "a default sorting method" (...)

There is another huge topic here on otland where the main point was changing a sorting mechanism to something new (vote system was mentioned).

You cannot give people a huge list and expect them to be able to read through everything

In the past when otservlist wasnt so popular, we competed with several server list's presenting information in different ways.
At the end of the day - visitors have chosen otservlist. I will not change something which works because minority doesn't like it.

That's basically what racism does.

Lol. Seriously? Of course I can put people in different groups. Some are ignorant, some aren't. Some have black hair, some blond. Some are mathematically talented some aren't.
This is what hardcore-left-wing wants you to believe, that people are equal. We are not equal. We are different in multiple ways and this is what is beautiful about the people. If you deny that you deny a basic logic and I will not fight about it since there is no way I can convince you so I will just give up - sorry.

I am surprised you are still active at all

I answer daily circa 20 emails regarding otservlist... Not to mention all discord conversations. I'm just not active on otland but I do read topics which some people finds interesting and sends them to me.

 

[Marko999x]

time waste
otservlist is way to popular

 

[Merrok]

You really need to learn to quote lol
Anyways

It's very easy. Someone can show a money transfer for that and if I wouldnt be able to proof

I meant for a common player to give proof of a server spoofing.

I've been talking about those who are perma banned. They have incentives to push for new server lists. The incentive for them is fresh-start which equals free advertisement.

Yeah ok, but what about everyone else?

In the past when otservlist wasnt so popular, we competed with several server list's presenting information in different ways.

Yep, in the past. You need to learn that its not the year 2000 anymore though.
The standards from back then are not the standards from today.
Saying "it worked in the past and I've always done it that way" doesn't make it good. Time changes! Why does this community not wanna learn that? Even the people you'd think should know that.

I will not change something which works because minority doesn't like it.

Ok fine if you know it's the minority, but do you? Only the minority will say something. It's always been that way. IRL or in the internet.
Do you have any data stating that it's the minority? I highly doubt that.
And just because the minority says something, doesn't mean the majority wouldn't welcome a change.
Time changes! Requirements change! Standards change!

This is what hardcore-left-wing wants you to believe, that people are equal.

That's exactly what I'm saying.
You put people in groups. But you cannot do that because people are not equal and do not fit in boxes. It does not work that way.
Yeah you can do it with binary questions like blonde or not wow. But not with that specific groups as you mentioned because there basically are infinite groups.
So: If you deny that you deny a basic logic and I will not fight about it since there is no way I can convince you so I will just give up - sorry.

otservlist is way to popular

So you'd rather just give up? That's a good attitude in life.
By the way Angel: especially if you are an admin on a server, you should not be using a password that easy. And certainly nothing that actually has something to do with angels. Way too easy to guess. (Sorry had to say that at this point...)

 

[Marko999x]

Its not about "giving up".
You guys want to create an otservlist for no reason...
Whats the point of it?
We have around 5 otservlist but just two are "popular"
Its time waste & pointless
or can you tell me good reason why otland should open an extra otservlist?
Trying to understand the point of it but I dont get it at all to be honest

 

[xinn]

@Merrok:

Yep, in the past. You need to learn that its not the year 2000 anymore though.
The standards from back then are not the standards from today.

I don't care about what is a standard "today". I care about what works and what makes otservlist popular. It's clean, it delivers most information visitors wants. If it was otherwise - those visitors would start looking for alternatives or would message me with suggestions about what to change.

I meant for a common player to give proof of a server spoofing.

I receive a lot of reports from people who found something "fishy" by playing a certain server (like a strange player behaviours).
Some of those reports actually resulted in banishment of servers.

You put people in groups. But you cannot do that because people are not equal and do not fit in boxes. It does not work that way.

I put them in groups, however I never said that 1 person belongs to 1 group. I also never said that every reader of otland fits in one of those groups. You are the one who tried to fit yourself into one of those groups but that's really not my concern.
Bananas fits into a group of "yellow things" but also a group of fruits. You get it now?

 

[Merrok]

Its not about "giving up".
You guys want to create an otservlist for no reason...
Whats the point of it?
We have around 5 otservlist but just two are "popular"
Its time waste & pointless
or can you tell me good reason why otland should open an extra otservlist?
Trying to understand the point of it but I dont get it at all to be honest

Competition. It always has a point. No competition = bad.

I don't care about what is a standard "today". I care about what works and what makes otservlist popular. It's clean, it delivers most information visitors wants. If it was otherwise - those visitors would start looking for alternatives or would message me with suggestions about what to change.

Look, there are reasons for today's standards. They aren't there just like that for the lolz. They make sense. They define good webdesign and control with a concept. That you don't care about them says something about you as a web developer.
It isn't clean. It just isn't. It was 15 years ago. I give you that. I really liked the way it was done back then. Really good design. Not today though.
It is naive to say it delivers most information visitors say without having specific data to rely on. Where is your survey? Where is your data? How did you get that information? Do you have any real interaction with the users indicating that?
They don't look for alternatives because they are used to it and most alternatives don't offer the amount of servers. It has to come from 2 sides. And that isn't happening. You are looking at the picture too narrow.

I put them in groups, however I never said that 1 person belongs to 1 group. I also never said that every reader of otland fits in one of those groups. You are the one who tried to fit yourself into one of those groups but that's really not my concern.
Bananas fits into a group of "yellow things" but also a group of fruits. You get it now?

Actually you said "the last group", which indicates a static amount and defined them specifically for certain people. Anyways... no sense arguing about that.
You are right, I tried to, that was more of a joke though if you couldn't tell by my obvious last sentence. WHERE IS MY GROUP GOD DAMNIT?!?!?!?!? :-((((

Earlier I give you a recommendation what sentence you should have written first and only. You should take it.
Arguing with a random user on a forum is never a good idea. You can only lose.

 

[xGustadoIts]

that's right there is no way to convince this xin, unjustly banned me I had to close my server.
I don't know if I'm happy or sad to have the same people suffering the same problem that I had, a warning to you, it doesn't matter, if he thought you were like that then you are like that and he was already your server and you together.
for sure my server was a job and you took it from me, i hate you to this day.