TFS 1.0 or 0.3, 0.2...

[dragaoart]

As a matter of fact, despites the progress on enhancing the program, the community seems to stick with "older" versions of TFS.

But even those versions (<=0.3) shows a continued development by the community.
New functions, mods, actions appears everyday for the old versions, as the newer (1.0) doesn't show the same acceptance by our community.

People ask me why it's easier to compile a TFS 1.0 on any OS, and it's hard to compile older versions. It looks like the new version have less code, but does that means that the newer version have less functionality?

Do you think it's easier to create a 8.6 based OT Server?
Do you prefer continued support for older versions?
Do you fell like is a pain to upgrade for a 10.x based OT?

Please, tell me what do you think about it?

 

[dominique120]

TFS 1.0 has "less code" because its better optimized. Functions and procedures have been re-written to be more efficient and use less memory. People still prefer older version because they are more accessible and most datapacks, released scripts and mods are made for these older versions to. Not many people want to go through the trouble of compiling TFS 1.0 from source when they can easily get an already compiled version like Printers 0.3.6.

It is troublesome to upgrade a server that was running on 0.4 to 1.0 because there is a lack of features and functions as well as new practices and new functions that dont exist in older version.

TFS 1.0 has been accepted by the community but its the new people that dont go straight to it.

 

[Animera]

The more functions the better for me Especially when they optimized it.

However i will not update my tfs to 1.0 if the client ain't the same as mine 0.3.5/0.3.6
why? I use simone map editor also the time when i chose that client it was the latest for freemium otland users.

And after 8.54 got a lot of shit which i do not want to cancel but teleport it far away from the client like mounts and such

do i got bad luck? Nah i just have to learn c++ and code it myself :3

 

[dominique120]

You also forgot to add 0.4 to the list. Its basically 0.3.6/0.3.7 with some features improved and better stability.

 

[Evil Puncker]

1.0 all the waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!

 

[Codinablack]

1.0 Is the best in my opinion BECAUSE of the optimization and the support. Most functions that people are used to and have for their scripts and systems are already converted in the compat.lua anyways. Really the only MAJOR difference's (for custom work) is that 1.0 lacks the ability to use a command like doItemSetAttribute(armor, 10) Even though we have a command for setting and getting the items attribute, it is just lacking the attack, hitchance, armor, defense, and other attributes for that function. The other one is that alot of the older versions have absorbPercentFire and reflectPercentFire (or other damage types) as tags for vocations, mounts, ect. The other major issue is people are so afraid of learning to script using the metamethods, however I believe if more people gave a little bit of their time towards learning it, they would see that metamethods are actually simplistic, and very useful.

Just remember, Mark is the best at this (my opinion), he has the top servers, he writes c++ and reads it like its his native language when it comes to otserv development. He finds all the problems with others codes just at a glance, and he is supporting tfs 1.0 whereas the older versions you have to find and fix yourself any problems you get, you can just post the bug on github for 1.0 and they are on it! I would suggest for experience and novice users alike, that they go with 1.0 simply because of that there.. I mean not just mark, but many other very talented programmers and coders have already picked up 1.0 and started developing it and provide some support for others....

 

[filipus]

Speaking from experience people don't move on to TFS 1.0 due to a lack of knowledge.
In my case, I don't know if I can use a 8.6 server with TFS 1.0 (I think not) and even if I can I have no idea how to set it up. Also, quite some functions that I'm using in my scripts are different so it's kind of a pain to convert everything.
It always fells better to be able to run a server from the .Exe someone else compiled and just edit the Luas than trying to modify sources and spending a full day just trying to compile an executable.

 

[ghettobird]

as good as tfs 1.0 is, I still love 0.3.6 lol

 

[dominique120]

Speaking from experience people don't move on to TFS 1.0 due to a lack of knowledge.
In my case, I don't know if I can use a 8.6 server with TFS 1.0 (I think not) and even if I can I have no idea how to set it up. Also, quite some functions that I'm using in my scripts are different so it's kind of a pain to convert everything.
It always fells better to be able to run a server from the .Exe someone else compiled and just edit the Luas than trying to modify sources and spending a full day just trying to compile an executable.

TFS 1.0 does not support 8.60, someone tried to start a little project but there was alot of opposition against it. TFS 1.0 tries to keep up with the latest Tibia updates(Its fallen a bit behind though)

Many functions do not exist that is true, but some have been renamed and many new ones appeared: https://github.com/otland/forgottenserver/wiki/Script-Interface

Using an exe someone else gave you is not always the safest option but it is the easiest. Also, for TFS 1.0 compiled nightly builds you can always check here: http://nightlies.otland.net/

 

[filipus]

TFS 1.0 does not support 8.60, someone tried to start a little project but there was alot of opposition against it. TFS 1.0 tries to keep up with the latest Tibia updates(Its fallen a bit behind though)

Many functions do not exist that is true, but some have been renamed and many new ones appeared: https://github.com/otland/forgottenserver/wiki/Script-Interface

Using an exe someone else gave you is not always the safest option but it is the easiest. Also, for TFS 1.0 compiled nightly builds you can always check here: http://nightlies.otland.net/

My main reason for not moving to TFS 1.0 is that I really want an older server due to my inability to change sources to make it simply feel like an old one (old pvp and things like that).
Also you seem to have so much more content, tools and tutorials for older versions that it fells strange to move forward when you can't quite comprehend the new one. (8.6 was the spike of the tibian population)

 

[spyk3z]

I love 1.0, 13:54 Uptime: 962 hours and 24 minutes. I've never used any version of TFS that's that stable.

 

[dragaoart]

You also forgot to add 0.4 to the list. Its basically 0.3.6/0.3.7 with some features improved and better stability.

I guess I cannot edit the pool anymore, but it can be includes in [0.3.x] option.

I want to hear more opinions my friends! The actual goal is to develop a method to easily translate a server from 0.3+ to 1.0!

 

[dominique120]

I guess I cannot edit the pool anymore, but it can be includes in [0.3.x] option.

I want to hear more opinions my friends! The actual goal is to develop a method to easily translate a server from 0.3+ to 1.0!

If that is what you want then maybe you should do what Zbizu did. He created libs for 1.0 that enabled people to use many scripts and functions from 0.3/0.4 on 1.0 servers. It came included in his EvoRPG datapack.

 

[Mark]

If you were using 0.2.x, updating to 1.0 should be easy because 1.0 is based on 0.2.15 and all your old scripts are covered by compat.lua. This is a somewhat complete list of what has changed since 0.2.15: https://github.com/otland/forgottenserver/wiki/Changelog-1.0

If you want a 8.6 server, go ahead and use 0.3, but you're stuck with it with barely any support or updates. The argument for starting a 8.6 server today is as ridiculous as choosing TFS 0.3, so your choices go hand in hand.

TFS 1.0 isn't easier to compile because it has less code, I would even argue that it might compile on less systems because it uses C++11 features (which 0.3 doesn't). It's because we have focused on portability, added CMake (0.3 uses GNU autotools, which is a disaster to work with), dropped a few external dependencies, and provided a SDK with the prerequisites for Visual Studio.

TFS 1.0 may be missing some functionality, but they were removed for good reasons.

• Admin protocol: rarely used and too limited, will be re-implemented in 1.1 in a more powerful way
• Account Manager: it was clumsy and hardcoded, introduced a lot of complexity to the codebase
• GUI: portability (it was Win32 GUI code), it also has no place in server software
• SQLite: different behavior from MySQL and limitations introduced complexity in writing SQL-queries, there were three options:
  • live with the mess
  • use a more ORM-like system (introduces performance overhead and prevents us from writing highly optimized queries)
  • drop SQLite and just support MySQL (we picked this)
• MD5 and plaintext passwords: security. Even SHA-1 is considered weak/broken, but it's a better option than MD5. We're looking at stronger options for TFS 1.1.
• Exception tracer: people extended this with code to save the server (which is a stupid idea if you have a corrupt game state). It was also confusing how to use it to generate a useful stacktrace, you had to build with particular flags. You're better off using a real debugger.
• NPC's scripted in XML: a lot of complexity and bugs with NPCs, the system was rarely used too

TFS 1.0 has also not been officially released yet, but we're hoping to release it soon, we just have to be sure that all critical bugs are fixed. You can help by testing it and reporting issues on GitHub.

 

[WibbenZ]

If you were using 0.2.x, updating to 1.0 should be easy because 1.0 is based on 0.2.15 and all your old scripts are covered by compat.lua. This is a somewhat complete list of what has changed since 0.2.15: https://github.com/otland/forgottenserver/wiki/Changelog-1.0

If you want a 8.6 server, go ahead and use 0.3, but you're stuck with it with barely any support or updates. The argument for starting a 8.6 server today is as ridiculous as choosing TFS 0.3, so your choices go hand in hand.

TFS 1.0 isn't easier to compile because it has less code, I would even argue that it might compile on less systems because it uses C++11 features (which 0.3 doesn't). It's because we have focused on portability, added CMake (0.3 uses GNU autotools, which is a disaster to work with), dropped a few external dependencies, and provided a SDK with the prerequisites for Visual Studio.

TFS 1.0 may be missing some functionality, but they were removed for good reasons.

• Admin protocol: rarely used and too limited, will be re-implemented in 1.1 in a more powerful way
• Account Manager: it was clumsy and hardcoded, introduced a lot of complexity to the codebase
• GUI: portability (it was Win32 GUI code), it also has no place in server software
• SQLite: different behavior from MySQL and limitations introduced complexity in writing SQL-queries, there were three options:
  • live with the mess
  • use a more ORM-like system (introduces performance overhead and prevents us from writing highly optimized queries)
  • drop SQLite and just support MySQL (we picked this)
• MD5 and plaintext passwords: security. Even SHA-1 is considered weak/broken, but it's a better option than MD5. We're looking at stronger options for TFS 1.1.
• Exception tracer: people extended this with code to save the server (which is a stupid idea if you have a corrupt game state). It was also confusing how to use it to generate a useful stacktrace, you had to build with particular flags. You're better off using a real debugger.
• NPC's scripted in XML: a lot of complexity and bugs with NPCs, the system was rarely used too

TFS 1.0 has also not been officially released yet, but we're hoping to release it soon, we just have to be sure that all critical bugs are fixed. You can help by testing it and reporting issues on GitHub.

I woulden't agree on 0.3 with 8.6. I would say 0.4 is better 3777 on linux otherwise 3884 on windows.
TFS 1.0 is alot better then the others ofc. The thing is that is, as you said is lacking features.
But none of the things users miss is on that list.

• Cast system (Summs was released and you can buy Elfs system etc.)
• The function mayNotMove was removed and what I understood from you is that it was just the name? Why not do as I did and use Player.allowMovement(boolean) insted?
• The function mayNotLogout is not there.
• Item attributes.
• Ability to use more compat files, ex. events used onStatsChange(parameters) that has now been renamed? to onHealthChange and onManaChange - But still brings the problem with compatability.
• Mods - I get that this isen't an importent things since its a thing anyone can fix by knowing the locations of the script files, but still if we are talking about compability features.
• Some functions are not listed in the compat.lua file and when I added them you responded with "We are trying to remove them, not make it easier to use them" ~.
• Animated text - This is not a problem due to the scripters, but a problem with the client version. If 1.0 was designed to work with all client versions alot more users would use it, without losing things like that.

Those are some of the things I just tought of.
But just a note to those who wanna use 1.0: You will have a hard time the first days, but tbh after you get a hang of the new script system you won't wanna go back. Trust me.

 

[dragaoart]

I'm more than happy to hear all those opinions and you're making a point!
What I've leaned so far:

• A newcomer should opt for a TFS 1.0 server.
• "TFS 1.0 has "less code" because its better optimized", due to removed unused and broken code.
• A 0.2x server can be easily translated to a 1.0 due to its high compatibility.
  
• People who is sticked to 0.3.x, 0.4.x (8.6 servers) has a good reason to upgrade to a 1.0 due to his improved code and community support.
• The missing datapack should be reworked and translated as in "EvoRPG datapack".
• TFS 1.0 is easier to compile because its high portability.
• You should first convert(compat.lua) scripts before move all datapack from an old version.

How can I deal with •Item attributes; •combat options and pvp retro-style; •old/custom sprites?

 

[EvilSkillz]

@Mark i agree with you that tfs 1.0 is the best server
less code and high performance
but as @WibbenZ said people looking for more feature
and they can find those feature here in otland ... but since the tfs 1.0 has other coding system x)
they stuck at old rev and waiting someone make thing for them

so i guess if tfs 1.0 with more feature will be awesome
but the feature i want isn't cast system -_-
idc. about shit like other people
i mean i want more attribute + functions

i'm already working on it by my self , but no time .
but when i add those functions ofc. i will make commit at github

king regards,
@EvilSkillz <3

 

[WibbenZ]

I'm more than happy to hear all those opinions and you're making a point!
What I've leaned so far:

• A newcomer should opt for a TFS 1.0 server.
• "TFS 1.0 has "less code" because its better optimized", due to removed unused and broken code.
• A 0.2x server can be easily translated to a 1.0 due to its high compatibility.
  
• People who is sticked to 0.3.x, 0.4.x (8.6 servers) has a good reason to upgrade to a 1.0 due to his improved code and community support.
• The missing datapack should be reworked and translated as in "EvoRPG datapack".
• TFS 1.0 is easier to compile because its high portability.
• You should first convert(compat.lua) scripts before move all datapack from an old version.

How can I deal with •Item attributes; •combat options and pvp retro-style; •old/custom sprites?

If you ask me 1.0 isen't easier to compile. Lets take 0.4 as an example: download tfs dev cpp and install open gl and hit compile.
Dev cpp dosen't require alot of hdd space, compared to visual studio. I run an ssd with a 1tb sata drive...
The problem with that is when I try to install visual studio it dosen't wanna install on my other harddrive, that makes it imposible to keep on the hdd due to the low space left.

@Mark i agree with you that tfs 1.0 is the best server
less code and high performance
but as @WibbenZ said people looking for more feature
and they can find those feature here in otland ... but since the tfs 1.0 has other coding system x)
they stuck at old rev and waiting someone make thing for them

so i guess if tfs 1.0 with more feature will be awesome
but the feature i want isn't cast system -_-
idc. about shit like other people
i mean i want more attribute + functions

i'm already working on it by my self , but no time .
but when i add those functions ofc. i will make commit at github

king regards,
@EvilSkillz <3

You are right, more users will prefer 1.0 if they add more options. It seems as if only Mark and Fallen is allowed to make major changes to the source code, since the rest seems to get shutdown.
And I get that they wanna keep the code clean but still..
But you said that its the script system that is the problem, I woulden't rly say that. I love the new system and that is the reason im working on an 1.0 server but with 8.60.
The old system is really bad with some functions named doPlayer and some doCreature etc.

 

[Colors]

If you ask me 1.0 isen't easier to compile. Lets take 0.4 as an example: download tfs dev cpp and install open gl and hit compile.
Dev cpp dosen't require alot of hdd space, compared to visual studio. I run an ssd with a 1tb sata drive...
The problem with that is when I try to install visual studio it dosen't wanna install on my other harddrive, that makes it imposible to keep on the hdd due to the low space left

I don't know why you are complaining about the disk space for Visual Studio, just the libs are like 4x... and a SSD with 1tb isn't enought for you? LOL

@OnTopic: Even if I'm just starting with the metatables I'm already really in love with the newest TFS distro, is awesome... I just miss the outfit bonuses from sources and the possibility to set some item attributes.
The lack of functions of 1.0 ISN'T that big as most people think.

 

[WibbenZ]

I don't know why you are complaining about the disk space for Visual Studio, just the libs are like 4x... and a SSD with 1tb isn't enought for you? LOL

@OnTopic: Even if I'm just starting with the metatables I'm already really in love with the newest TFS distro, is awesome... I just miss the outfit bonuses from sources and the possibility to set some item attributes.
The lack of functions of 1.0 ISN'T that big as most people think.

The ssd is on 120gb, that is pretty much filled haha got about 30gb free and I don't wanna use that for visual studio.
The 1tb hdd is the sata one and since that is not my main C: visual studio dosen't allow