A small debate about custom adventure/rpg servers

[Werewolf]

i have never understood why Custom adventure RPG server get alot less attention then real map servers/forgotten server/revolution server copys.

these 3 maps seems to be way over used, you would think that people would get bord of the same thing over and over.

then when i look at real custom map/ot that are adventure rpg based they always have little to no players at all, but i know for sure that the custom map rpg servers always have something cool and unique to give ontop of a new custom map to explore.

what i would like to know is why do copy/paste map servers get more attention then servers that actually put time into making them?

 

[Black Reaper]

Because that isn't what TIbia is. It's like going onto a Windows forum and asking everyone why they don't use Linux. You have to realize Tibia isn't intended to be a adventure/rpg/questing game anymore, for the last 4 years cip has developed the game to accommodate botting and pvp. There are very few people who enjoyed TIbia to explore and quest left to play those servers.

 

[Werewolf]

well that is a very good point indeed, but as i under stand it. alot of people turn to OT because they like tibia as a game but disagree with real tibia's new current updates which are rapidly making the game bad.

Custom rpg/adventure servers are unique and go in many directions as far as rpgs go and have many fun and unique features.

also. Real map tibia servers are RPG servers but they are most definitely not custom. but they are adventure based so your statement "There are very few people who enjoyed TIbia to explore and quest left to play those servers." is null for i see real maps with hundreds.

also for that statement the Revolution and forgotten servers are normally ether war pvp servers or 9999X exp fast play monster teleporter servers which these types of servers get boring in an hour or 2.

this does not explain why Custom rpg servers get no players...

 

[hehemidu]

the costum community has been dieing for some time now. there are very few people left who enjoy exploring and learning new vocs/monters and so on. and than a part of the costum community, that is small allready, only plays fully costum servers (nothing global: so costum spells/monsters/vocs/map/unique systems and so on).
Another fact is that people tend to do little advertising. the community is small as it is. people should try to advertise the sh*t out of it , on every known place there is.

Most people just want a known environment to play and get some high lvl soon and pvp.

I love to play truly costum servers but i will also play servers with only a costum map because i'm just in love with exploring and rpging (doesnt mean i dont like pvp also ofc).
At one point people will hopefully see the fun in rpging again. i hope to see this day once

Kind regards,
Hehemidu

 

[Werewolf]

Thank you hehemidu, i approve of your answer

 

[Druid Elf]

Well, debate is not closed, I'd like to give my 2 cents...

Today's Tibia players are TOO used to Tibia.wikia and to Botting. CIP is making the game easier for botters and grinders, which is another problem, players want to have HIGH levels so they can be "the best", so it's an exhaustive grinding to be the Top player, which makes the game repetitive and boring.
Because of all this, people go to OTServers to get level fast so they can kill people or try some hardass monsters, since RL Tibia has a very low rate (1x), so deaths are harsh (even with blessings and all that crap), dying in an OT is not as bad as dying on RL Tibia. So people go to these servers to kill monsters, be high levels and to kill people.
Because of this and Tibia.wikia, RL Maps are always "good" because people know where to hunt, what to hunt, how to make the quests, etc.

About Custom Servers, the main problem is that they are not custom. They change Tibia's map, but everything else is the same, spells, leveling, grinding, etc. So it's pretty much the same, with a different map, therefore, players don't want to explore the map, make similar quests which they don't know, and all that. They want to get levels, kill kickass monsters and kill lots of people.
To make a working custom server, would need an extreme amount of work, not only on the map side, but the server, scripts, quests, spells, items. Everything should be custom, and you need a good storyline for that, also, some sort of manual, so your player know what and how to do things. I have a project I've been working on for years, but I always go back to square one (just started over last week) which means to change all that, an idea of a completely different game, but, I have restrictions, in my case (programming skills, scripting skills and time, plus I work all by myself).

Also, as mentioned, you need advertisement and get people's interest. You can't pay people to script/code/map for you, pay a dedicated server, etc. if you don't make sure it is working 100%, thus making the experience unique and flawless, caughting the attention of the player, so he wants to stay there and play your server.
But almost every customs servers I have seen, open alphas and betas with too much of the server on it, and with lots of bugs. So we play, get to know all about the server and that's it, you are bored and a new test server never happens.

People need to be less greedy. I know hosting, etc. is expensive, but first you need to show WHY they should support your server with donations/premium, instead of offering it at the very beginning and giving the VIP stuff (which I find ridiculous, you have premium, period. No VIP shit).

Many great projects are under development, but people need to change the way Tibia is to get the community's attention and make these kind of servers populated:
- Less grinding
- Less "be the top" thinking
- Less repetition
- Less boredom
- Uniqueness
- No VIP crap
- Less greediness (or w/e you spell it )

---- EDIT ----

I'd like to leave a question as well...

WHY is leveling and being the TOP so important? What is so good about it and how can this be changed to make every moment of your character development fun and enjoyable instead of only the higher levels?

 

[Giddran]

WHY is leveling and being the TOP so important? What is so good about it and how can this be changed to make every moment of your character development fun and enjoyable instead of only the higher levels?

Design.

 

[Druid Elf]

Design.

Explain it further, please.

 

[Giddran]

You will need to create value for the players and mental rewards to keep them going. For example, why would a player enjoy/care what they do at the moment have practically no impact on their later stages of the game.

And that is just a small part of it.

 

[Werewolf]

Well as far as my server is concerned i have
Custom:
- exp stages
- Monsters
- Spells
- Vocations
- Features
- npcs
- map
- Items

and to top it off im even developing an in-game wiki so you dont need to jump online. but i am also working on a wiki as well.

but for some reason i never found the server having any more then 30 players at one time.

this is why i ask the question why custom servers dont get as much love.

but by your great responses i can see why. thank you very much everyone.

www.tibiakingdoms.com

 

[Flatlander]

I think the biggest problem is most custom servers are either too slow paced and boring, or too confusing to new players.

Which cause most people to avoid all custom servers, since they are used to them being bad.

 

[Black Reaper]

Grinding is the fundamental basis of Tibia. You have to take account the demographic you're targeting here like I was trying to explain in my earlier post. People who are playing Open Tibia came from Tibia. There is no proper lore or exceptionally diverse quests and people only do them to further there characters level by items, money, or service as the reward. It all comes back to leveling. Every single aspect of Tibia is directed precisely toward the characters level in a nasty loop, other than that is has PvP. If you want to make an rpg game then do it, Tibia is fundamentally flawed as a base for making a rpg. Maybe 4 years ago, when there were more people who we're playing Tibia who enjoyed questing, exploration, and RPG you could of made something. There simply is no point: for one TFS is designed to be a modifiable Tibia NOT a "mmo-engine". The demograph you're targeting in this specific community is very small and you will never have a successful (lets call it game) because you limit yourself to this community. The current state of all the servers open proves this. I actually witnessed the migration from "custom" servers to (lets just say entirely) clones of Tibia. This is what the community wants, they did it themselves and it continues to flourish. People like us who like exploring, rpg, etc are a very small percent of the Open Tibia community. If you want to make a game take the time to learn how, you'll develop a diverse set of skills that are applicable in the real world and it would take the same time as it would to "hack" TFS to be an acceptable median to create a server you're talking about.

Not directing this at you, I just mean people making epic proportion "rpg" servers.

There's also huge projects like Necronia which I argue why would they use TFS as a base and limit themselves is so many ways instead of just developing an engine.

 

[hehemidu]

I believe/hope necronia will be the tipping point, that people will see what open tibia should be all about and more and more costum projects get started.

@up i do believe they modified TFS tho.

 

[Black Reaper]

I believe/hope necronia will be the tipping point, that people will see what open tibia should be all about and more and more costum projects get started.

@up i do believe they modified TFS tho.

Indeed, I'm sure they have. Also want to point out I'm not hating on Necronia, I wish them much success.

 

[Flatlander]

@ the person that said tibia is based upon Grinding.
I would like to disagree.

I have always viewed tibia as a chat room more than a game.
To be more specific it was originally designed as a "Virtual World"
There is no "goal" or "max level" or "raid monsters" the only goal is "live".

Tibia is the only MMO I have seen with such a original and diverse community.
There are basically 3 parts to tibia.

• Botting/Grinding or PvE for levels/money/skills
• PvP
• Community

All 3 of those are very important for a successful RPG server. (This is of course my opinion)
Having a complex and interesting community enhanced by systems like Housing, decorations, owning your own pets, marriage, etc in my opinion is just as important as balanced and fun PvP.

The Botting/Grinding is give and take, Some people enjoy botting ALOT (I have friends that won't play if they can't bot), and some people would rather have challenging and interesting PvE.

 

[Eldin]

I will for sure follow this thread and hope that the debate will continue.

Im "back" after being busy for 2 years. This time I'll be having a different strategy, small versions of server ideas.
I currently have about 10 projects written down that I would like to create, both big and small in different styles.

My idea is to take one at a time, create a version of it that could be finished in about 3 months in general and then host it. Once its hosted, I can crush all bugs, improve the gameplay and then release it to puplic.

The better a project works out, the more I improve it. In this way, I'll have a chance to test my projects as well as giving out some nice servers and basis for other people. A win-win situation. My only goal is 50-100 people per server (depending on wich one) and it would work perfectly.

Open Tibia could be great, its sad that it got stuck the way it is atm, high exp rl maps and people trying to earn money.

I'll do my best for sure. Hope you will too.

Kind Regards,
Eldin.

 

[Flatlander]

I will for sure follow this thread and hope that the debate will continue.

Im "back" after being busy for 2 years. This time I'll be having a different strategy, small versions of server ideas.
I currently have about 10 projects written down that I would like to create, both big and small in different styles.

My idea is to take one at a time, create a version of it that could be finished in about 3 months in general and then host it. Once its hosted, I can crush all bugs, improve the gameplay and then release it to puplic.

The better a project works out, the more I improve it. In this way, I'll have a chance to test my projects as well as giving out some nice servers and basis for other people. A win-win situation. My only goal is 50-100 people per server (depending on wich one) and it would work perfectly.

Open Tibia could be great, its sad that it got stuck the way it is atm, high exp rl maps and people trying to earn money.

I'll do my best for sure. Hope you will too.

Kind Regards,
Eldin.

I think OTLand got stuck being too close to Tibia. Even if we started by copying tibia, doesn't mean we cannot expand and improve upon it.
Honestly, TFS has nothing to do with Tibia. It is simply a Tile-Based MMO Server. Meaning you can make any Tile-Based MMO imaginable with it.

It is our fault for not putting the capability into TFS to be more powerful and customizable.
I feel if we give the community the tools to make something better, then maybe we can finally overcome all these RL Tibia Remakes.

 

[Eldin]

Some of my servers will be unique as they can from what TFS let us do. I honestly think its enough, its afterall not a unique engine but made from what RL tibia has. We should also be carefull with some words as OT wouldn't be much without Talaturen and C.O.

The biggest problem honestly seem to be players that actually will play different styles.

Kind Regards,
Eldin.

 

[Black Reaper]

I think OTLand got stuck being too close to Tibia. Even if we started by copying tibia, doesn't mean we cannot expand and improve upon it.
Honestly, TFS has nothing to do with Tibia. It is simply a Tile-Based MMO Server. Meaning you can make any Tile-Based MMO imaginable with it.

It is our fault for not putting the capability into TFS to be more powerful and customizable.
I feel if we give the community the tools to make something better, then maybe we can finally overcome all these RL Tibia Remakes.

That's just not true. Tibia specifics are hard-coded into TFS, it was most certainly not designed to be a multi-purpose mmo server. I'm sure any dev would speak on that.

 

[Flatlander]

I totaly agree.

Some of my servers will be as unique as they can from what TFS let us do. We should however be carefull with some words as OT wouldn't be much without Talaturen and C.O.

The biggest problem honestly seem to be players that actually will play different styles.

Kind Regards,
Eldin.

I never said anything against the creators of TFS. They have designed a very good server that in my opinion, is better than Cipsoft.

But when I started my project "The Imagined Server" I quickly realized how easy it was to add in TONS of additional features. Why this hasn't done in the past astounds me.

I will be happy if we could develop a Server, Client, Item Editor, Sprite Editor, and Map Editor that all work well together.