[Canada] [8.60] DeathZot | 99% Custom Map | 22 Vocations | Over 200 New Items | Prestige | Dungeons

[Dlite93]

Holding down a hotkey and clicking 100 times a second to fish is so fun for manual players. Why would I ever make an attempt to help manual players prevent carpal tunnel... idk.


I did not say impossible, I said it is extremely hard to find trustworthy people.


Witch hunts as I said previously.


No, not because it is impossible. Because it is difficult and the entire point of making the server 8.6 was so that instead of trying to PREVENT the bots, we instead give everyone equal opportunity to use them.


First of all, I have no idea who you are. Secondly, if you "warned" me about this happening (botting on an 8.6) then I guess I should thank you for pointing out the extremely obvious. I never would have guessed people would use elfbot on 8.6. Thank you for opening my eyes.


What? The only problem with XDC was that I couldn't keep up with the high level players easily so I decided to abandon the project because it was too much work and I made pretty much $0 doing it because I tried to have 100% fair donations that nobody was interested in. If the server requires ~10 hours a day to develop and you end up making $50 a day... that is less than a minimum wage job at mcdonalds.


That is why you think Deathzot has a problem. You think botting levels matters and so you most likely had shit equipment and got killed quite often.


Fixed for you.


The task system was never meant to be anti-bot. If I wanted that I would just make the npc assign a random monster or something like that.


I am confused on this one... You walked up to a party of 6 bots that had dropped 25k gold on the ground? So basically, you thought 25k was a lot of gold on Deathzot?


The idea here is to actually give manual players an efficiency "bonus" and due to stamina, a manual player that plays enough to drain stamina will have gained more than the botter that isn't taking advantage of the time they spend.
This entire idea sorta fails when people have 10 characters that are level 20k+ and can either 1. bot them all or 2. alternate between stamina.
One thing I would like to say about this is I think most people with many high level characters before were abusing pvp experience. I am curious to see how it plays out this time now that it is no longer possible to bot 10 characters and kill them for experience every few hours.


If you kill a botter and they are truly botting afk. They will be sent to the light room and cannot auto walk back. So basically, if you do enjoy ruining a botters day so to speak, just kill their bots and the will wake up having gained nothing.


If they were just afking characters inside the world boss then that does not qualify as "botting"... They were simply afking.


I agree, things that bring players together in 1 spot is always fun. That is why we give out free RP from the hourly events so that people want to do them all the time. That is why we have made things such as the boss in the lake that require a large amount of players to kill. We also made dungeons extremely party-friendly by giving everyone personal loot but alas, players would rather bitch about dungeons taking too much time rather than teaming up with a couple people to make them faster.

I know the curve rate of the server thank you very much, but i hunted for 3 days manuelly and got from 2k - 5k~ while in 2 days i got from 1-7k by fishing with bot. and that was with no tasks you know.

The money i found the 25k was early on release and it was 25k every hour.
I fraced it bad by not saying it was once a hour and not total.
And the old way of botting bosses was broken and thats why you yourself fixed it. isnt that right?
Because just having just a spin bot is still a bot, even tasker is a bot, as it is not a person playing, its a roBOT.
I know gear is extremely important for deathzot.
But if you bot 1-3 characters while manually playing 1. you gain extra gear and cash for nothing more than copy + paste of scripts.
So then that persons manuall is stronger aswell.

 

[Zothion]

I agree, things that bring players together in 1 spot is always fun. That is why we give out free RP from the hourly events so that people want to do them all the time. That is why we have made things such as the boss in the lake that require a large amount of players to kill. We also made dungeons extremely party-friendly by giving everyone personal loot but alas, players would rather bitch about dungeons taking too much time rather than teaming up with a couple people to make them faster.

i think what many players didnt like about the dungeons were the fact that they gave literally 0 xp and monsters took a longass time to kill, so it wasnt really that worth it unless you overgeared/outlvld the dung

 

[Xagul]

But if you bot 1-3 characters while manually playing 1.

Yea that's really the problem as we have already stated. MCing is the problem, not botting. There are a million ways you can benefit from using MCs and botting them in some random spawn is the least profitable to be fair.

i think what many players didnt like about the dungeons were the fact that they gave literally 0 xp and monsters took a longass time to kill, so it wasnt really that worth it unless you overgeared/outlvld the dung

I do understand that point of view but at the same time, the dungeons were designed for people to do them with a party. If you run through them with a couple friends they will be just as fast as running through a normal spawn in that zone. That is why we decided to give each person a chest of loot rather than having it all drop on the ground. There is absolutely no reason to ever do a dungeon solo... It will always benefit you to run with more people because more people = faster = more loot per hour (assuming you have enough boss tokens).

 

[MysteriousDot]

Yea that's really the problem as we have already stated. MCing is the problem, not botting. There are a million ways you can benefit from using MCs and botting them in some random spawn is the least profitable to be fair.

With saying that, do you have any plans regarding MCings? Anyway around either reducing or stopping it?

 

[alekito]

deathsot is nice name for this server since it will be dead again after some days because of the botting
ggwp lets reset and make server dead in days again and now deathzot is just like any random reseting ots that xagul cried about in his earlier posts b4 reset

uhh so Mr "make server dead in days again" why are you here?

 

[Xagul]

With saying that, do you have any plans regarding MCings? Anyway around either reducing or stopping it?

Well like I said in a previous post, the only way to stop it is to dedicate an insane amount of time into moderating it. More importantly, when that much effort is put into punishing players who are MCing then the problem arises where certain individuals who are good at hiding thier MCing gain a huge advantage over the players who wish to abide by the rules.

I am not going to sit here and pretend MCing will not be a problem this time around, but I do believe that MCing will not be as beneficial as it was pre-wipe just simply for the fact that you cannot level up 10 characters and then kill them for exp on your main anymore. I do believe that was the most destructive part of MCs pre-wipe. I also think a lot of MCing was done to farm keys. This time around that should not be necessary as you can just use keys on your main while you hunt if you wish. At the end of the day, the only thing I really see MCs being useful for is hunting down ubers and to be honest I can't really see a way around that... If people want to cheese things they will even if it requires them to set up an alert on their phone so they can check it while at work. It's sad but it's true unfortunately

Edit:
There is 1 solution to MCing and that would be item loss on death. While that seems like a simple no brainer thing to add to the server, I feel it may hurt normal players more than the botters in the long run. Eventually the people using MCs will be ahead of the people not, they will use the MCs to "bully" other players causing them to lose items. At least the way it is now when they bully another player, the victim just loses a bit of gold (or exp if they choose to not bless).

 

[Zothion]

Well like I said in a previous post, the only way to stop it is to dedicate an insane amount of time into moderating it. More importantly, when that much effort is put into punishing players who are MCing then the problem arises where certain individuals who are good at hiding thier MCing gain a huge advantage over the players who wish to abide by the rules.

I am not going to sit here and pretend MCing will not be a problem this time around, but I do believe that MCing will not be as beneficial as it was pre-wipe just simply for the fact that you cannot level up 10 characters and then kill them for exp on your main anymore. I do believe that was the most destructive part of MCs pre-wipe. I also think a lot of MCing was done to farm keys. This time around that should not be necessary as you can just use keys on your main while you hunt if you wish. At the end of the day, the only thing I really see MCs being useful for is hunting down ubers and to be honest I can't really see a way around that... If people want to cheese things they will even if it requires them to set up an alert on their phone so they can check it while at work. It's sad but it's true unfortunately

nvm

 

[Zasranets]

With saying that, do you have any plans regarding MCings? Anyway around either reducing or stopping it?

I doubt there is much he can do. I think in an earlier post he said it would be to much work and I agree with him. (even though I would love to see MCing reduced I'm not sure if there is an effective way)

Most if not all of Xagul's answers make sense. I think some of us are arguing from a player's view without thinking about the Staff's view. Don't get me wrong though..
I'm certainly in the top 3 people who despise botting so I understand on so many levels how some of you feel, but I have learned that you will get no where if you argue about botting.
The more effective method would be to give suggestions on things that would boost manual playing and abolish botting (or in this case MCing). The worst Xagul could say is no so..

 

[MysteriousDot]

Well like I said in a previous post, the only way to stop it is to dedicate an insane amount of time into moderating it. More importantly, when that much effort is put into punishing players who are MCing then the problem arises where certain individuals who are good at hiding thier MCing gain a huge advantage over the players who wish to abide by the rules.

I am not going to sit here and pretend MCing will not be a problem this time around, but I do believe that MCing will not be as beneficial as it was pre-wipe just simply for the fact that you cannot level up 10 characters and then kill them for exp on your main anymore. I do believe that was the most destructive part of MCs pre-wipe. I also think a lot of MCing was done to farm keys. This time around that should not be necessary as you can just use keys on your main while you hunt if you wish. At the end of the day, the only thing I really see MCs being useful for is hunting down ubers and to be honest I can't really see a way around that... If people want to cheese things they will even if it requires them to set up an alert on their phone so they can check it while at work. It's sad but it's true unfortunately

Nah thats a good response. You have worked out ways to reduce it as in making it was less beneficial to MC, good work

 

[CartelChroma]

i love wen shawn rekts ppl i know he loves it too

 

[Xagul]

The more effective method would be to give suggestions on things that would boost manual playing and abolish botting

That really is a great point. I am always open to suggestions as long as they are realistic. Even if the idea doesn't directly impact the goal of "better for manual than for bots" if you guys have an idea that you would find more fun to manual that's fantastic. Alternative methods of reaching various goals are always great additions to any server so long as they are in line with the rest of the methods so one does not become the best answer every time.

I have been playing a lot of random games lately and I have seen a lot of things that just don't make sense to me and I have been talking to @Flatlander about this concept I have been working on in my head.
It's quite simple really... If you design something that may prove to become "tedious" then players will inevitably strive to cheat/cheese it. The best way to combat cheating is to appeal to what people actually enjoy doing.

One basic example of this is fishing.
Why do people fish? To gain experience fast.
How do they fish? By using a fishing rod on the water repeatedly.
What is the fun part of this concept? Gaining experience.
What is tedious in this system? Clicking the rod 10000000x.

Solution: Make the rod auto use itself.

We have taken something that players are going to macro anyway, and built it into the server. We still want fishing to be a time sink, it would be silly to just make a fish appear instantly upon using a rod on water but at least this way the player isn't forced to click 100x a minute.

Another example is healing.
Why do people heal? To not die.
How do they heal? By pressing a hotkey when their life gets low.
What is the fun part of this? Not dying.
What is the tedious part? Constantly pressing the heal hotkey like a brainless zombie.

Solution: Make the server heal for you.

Again we have taken something that players are going to bot anyway, and implemented it in a way that we can control. Rather than having overpowered heal bots that are impossible to kill because of perfect reaction times, everyone is instead limited to a "regeneration" style system. The result is all players on an equal playing field.

 

[MysteriousDot]

I think maybe the orbs that drop from the normal monsters, not ubers should be relooked at. They seem quite lackluster.

Maybe a possible chance for like a "Big Orb" or whatever to drop which gives a certain % more than a normal orb?

 

[Zothion]

i agree with clarity that orbs could use a look on
loot orbs are quite frankly pretty much nothing in comparison to chests ubers and maps nowdays
gold orbs are also very very low amounts especially in higher lvl areas

 

[Zasranets]

You're exactly right. The main reason people bot is because they don't feel like doing tedious tasks and this is something I've seen Flatlander address many times. Even me as a manual player I often wished for a bot so that I wouldn't have to do repetitive tasks. I can easily understand why people pot. Why bother doing something really boring if a bot can do it for you? So yes the goal is to make the server exciting at ALL costs, which is often hard to do.

I think maybe the orbs that drop from the normal monsters, not ubers should be relooked at. They seem quite lackluster.
Maybe a possible chance for like a "Big Orb" or whatever to drop which gives a certain % more than a normal orb?

I suggested on the forum a while back to boost orbs, but it seemed enough people didn't agree with it.

Loot orb: Reward token, 2-3 equipment pieces instead of 1
Map orb: A special map where the boss drops a ton of of orbs
Exp orb: Exp jackpot (gives X times more exp)
Gold orb: Chance to get platinum/crystal coins

"The fuck just i read.
Its totally bullshit and u r some black ***** :|
U r fucked up and idea is shitty."

It would be nice to see orbs boosted since that is something people don't really bot on.

 

[Xagul]

Well I guess the question is... Does making normal monster orbs better actually add anything to the server? Or does it just further inflate the amount of tier items players get. I know loot orbs may not seem like they amount to much but if you consider how many you get between each uber killed, are they really that bad? Also experience orbs essentially double your exp rate if you are getting them all which is quite nice.

 

[Zothion]

is it really double xp? damn its been a while since i played normally to remember lmao
maps are quite fine imo
from what i can remember loot orbs rarely gave much really, but you have the numbers or orbs and ubers and shit so you can easily calculate it, it just feels weird to sit in 15k+ areas hunting and getting a loot orb for 1 t2-t3

 

[Codex NG]

Well I guess the question is... Does making normal monster orbs better actually add anything to the server? Or does it just further inflate the amount of tier items players get. I know loot orbs may not seem like they amount to much but if you consider how many you get between each uber killed, are they really that bad? Also experience orbs essentially double your exp rate if you are getting them all which is quite nice.

I think the orb drop rate was pretty good especially when you added in the ubers, instead of taking a few days to make a t6 set it only took a few hours, I don't see any issue with the orb drop rate and as for a big orb chance that is what ubers are for.

My only issue with the server was the shitty tutors (not all of them were shitty) who loved muting people for next to no reason, and the lack of creativity when it came to mapping higher level areas or even the solution of rifts for rb characters, there really should be a new mapped out area added for rb's because it kind of sucks to repeat the same hunting grounds over and over especially when your on your umpteenth toon.

 

[Zasranets]

I can vouch for the shitty tutor part. I can't believe how some of those people even became tutors.. a handful of them were the most childish people I have ever seen. Often times when new players asked for help the tutors either ignored them or gave smart ass answers. I would definitely recommend getting some real tutors.

 

[Zothion]

the helpfulness of tutors steadily declined as the server progressed for sure

and codex, yes ubers and chests help with more loot, but those dont really give any advantage to manual players over botters, which is what regular orbs actually do

 

[Xagul]

it just feels weird to sit in 15k+ areas hunting and getting a loot orb for 1 t2-t3

The normal orbs are the same as orbs dropped by ubers. If an uber drops 25 orbs, getting 25 orbs from normal monsters will on average result in the exact same loot (ofc rng does play a role here).