• There is NO official Otland's Discord server and NO official Otland's server list. The Otland's Staff does not manage any Discord server or server list. Moderators or administrator of any Discord server or server lists have NO connection to the Otland's Staff. Do not get scammed!

Moving forward

OTLand is an open-source community, and there is nothing wrong with the people who run servers and make money from that, running a server is not essentially free and takes a lot of effort. The problem is when people use free resources such as The Forgotten Server and don't give anything back to the community -- or even worse, try to sell the resources they create.

We need to start working together to move forward. I've been working on The Forgotten Server for free for over 6 years and I've never asked anyone to pay me for a copy. When I see people fork my project, add something to it and sell their additions it demotivates me from continuing to share my improvements to the engine for free.

I'm not going to be nice and expect people to understand what an open-source community is anymore, as of today, I'm closing down the Marketplace board and making it illegal to sell OpenTibia resources on OTLand. If you're in an open-source community to make money, you're at the wrong place. It is still OK to charge for hosting services, and advertising such services should be done in the Jobs forum. Advertising websites where you can buy or sell OpenTibia resources will not be tolerated.

The best way to move forward is by doing it together, and therefore it is important that we help all the newcomers with their questions in hope that they will learn and contribute to the community. The support team has done a good job with that, but there will always be room for improvement. If you cannot contribute with codes or scripts, at least contribute by helping out the newbies in the community!

To encourage developers and end-users of the OpenTibia software to contribute more, I've also closed down the private subversion in favor of an open GitHub repository. While this may result in less donations to OTLand because many were paying for a premium subscription with the intention to get private subversion access rather than supporting OTLand, I will do my best to keep OTLand ad free.

Watch and fork The Forgotten Server at GitHub! If you have made any changes that you feel should be in the official repository, create a pull request.
 
Click to expand...
Simple, like any other comunity, through helping & receiving help, and making tutorials to help people to learn how to do it,

Nobody says "Don't sell a thing" in fact he only says "Don't sell scripts, Characters, Hosting services & others, of course is possible, but don't sell scripts or shit related (i.e. image for the characters, items, etc...)
 
All I see is Otland standing still. Not moving anywhere.
 
Obsdark said:
Simple, like any other comunity, through helping & receiving help, and making tutorials to help people to learn how to do it,

Nobody says "Don't sell a thing" in fact he only says "Don't sell scripts, Characters, Hosting services & others, of course is possible, but don't sell scripts or shit related (i.e. image for the characters, items, etc...)
Click to expand...

Since you dident quote me I diden't get a notification about your post.
The problem is that some things are allowed to be sold(or the mods are just looking in the download section or smth)
Ex. Don is allowed to sell his servers, ppl like Snejk(I think), Fallen or w/e his name is, is allowed to sell support/script services. And also dominique has his "service"..
Characters are allowed to be sold, check the link below my post.
The thing im annoyd with is that ppl like gesior, isen't allowed to sell scripts that he has made, but at the same time I can hire Fallen or w/e to do the same thing, and thats allowed.

Why not allow ppl to advertise on otland, rather then leaving for some br/pl forum where its allowed. And why not keep it as it was, that you have to be a premmy user and bring the status back of actually getting premmy insted of the, pretty much empty premmy boards.
 
WibbenZ said:
Since you dident quote me I diden't get a notification about your post.
The problem is that some things are allowed to be sold(or the mods are just looking in the download section or smth)
Ex. Don is allowed to sell his servers, ppl like Snejk(I think), Fallen or w/e his name is, is allowed to sell support/script services. And also dominique has his "service"..
Characters are allowed to be sold, check the link below my post.
The thing im annoyd with is that ppl like gesior, isen't allowed to sell scripts that he has made, but at the same time I can hire Fallen or w/e to do the same thing, and thats allowed.

Why not allow ppl to advertise on otland, rather then leaving for some br/pl forum where its allowed. And why not keep it as it was, that you have to be a premmy user and bring the status back of actually getting premmy insted of the, pretty much empty premmy boards.
Click to expand...

Because this is an open-source community, if you don't understand the concept of collaborating you should go find that pl/br forum you are taking about because you'd be a better fit there. We are not collaborating when we are asking people to pay for a copy of what we create - I have never asked anyone to pay for a copy of TFS. If you need money, go find a job, you're at the wrong place.
 
Mark said:
Because this is an open-source community, if you don't understand the concept of collaborating you should go find that pl/br forum you are taking about because you'd be a better fit there. We are not collaborating when we are asking people to pay for a copy of what we create - I have never asked anyone to pay for a copy of TFS. If you need money, go find a job, you're at the wrong place.
Click to expand...

The problem isen't that, and at the same time you "sold" 0.4, you think ppl had any other reason to donate to otland? There is a reason those pl/br forums are still alive, if otland we're as it was, they woulden't have anything to come with.
And still I ask, why is it allowed to charge for support / script services when its not allowed to sell the scripts you have made? The only diffrence is that its a copy and not a new script each user buying the service. And how is the community supposed to grow without ppl wanting to make it grow? Its imposible today to get a working good service without paying others, just look at the server costs. If anyone you should know that.
The problem isen't gaining the money, the problem is getting a trusted person to help, and when ppl like 5mock, gesior, znote etc isen't allowed to sell the scripts they make, they won't make more scripts then they have to.


And tbh, how much is otland making now without ads, without (pretty much atleast) no one, wanting to buy premmy?
 
WibbenZ said:
The problem isen't that, and at the same time you "sold" 0.4, you think ppl had any other reason to donate to otland? There is a reason those pl/br forums are still alive, if otland we're as it was, they woulden't have anything to come with.
And still I ask, why is it allowed to charge for support / script services when its not allowed to sell the scripts you have made? The only diffrence is that its a copy and not a new script each user buying the service. And how is the community supposed to grow without ppl wanting to make it grow? Its imposible today to get a working good service without paying others, just look at the server costs. If anyone you should know that.
The problem isen't gaining the money, the problem is getting a trusted person to help, and when ppl like 5mock, gesior, znote etc isen't allowed to sell the scripts they make, they won't make more scripts then they have to.


And tbh, how much is otland making now without ads, without (pretty much atleast) no one, wanting to buy premmy?
Click to expand...

I will repeat it again: I never sold any version of TFS. If you're not seeing any reason to donate to OTLand, it's because you're selfish. You're looking at how the donation will benefit you rather than OTLand -- you don't get the point of a donation. I don't see any reason in discussing this any further with you, everything I have to say about this has already been said in this thread. I'm just repeating myself to people who have problems understanding.

OTLand is not making any money, it's non-profit. We're not selling anything.
 
I will do my best as well to bring out projects to the community.
Thank You Mark and CO for everything, we would n't be here without you today.

Kind Regards,
Eldin.
 
So
Mark said:
Because this is an open-source community, if you don't understand the concept of collaborating you should go find that pl/br forum you are taking about because you'd be a better fit there. We are not collaborating when we are asking people to pay for a copy of what we create - I have never asked anyone to pay for a copy of TFS. If you need money, go find a job, you're at the wrong place.
Click to expand...
if this is "open source are you gonna release all of the sources to the latest 1.0 you have working?
Why is there still a premmy board and its the only place you can get certain revs?
Release your full working 1.0 and we will call it open source open community.
So far we are having to hire ppl to help do stuff, that isnt true open source when certain assets are not available except to only a few or by a few.

Dont get me wrong Mark we all appreciate your help but even I myself see some biased things here every now and then.
 
Seksy said:
So

if this is "open source are you gonna release all of the sources to the latest 1.0 you have working?
Why is there still a premmy board and its the only place you can get certain revs?
Release your full working 1.0 and we will call it open source open community.
So far we are having to hire ppl to help do stuff, that isnt true open source when certain assets are not available except to only a few or by a few.

Dont get me wrong Mark we all appreciate your help but even I myself see some biased things here every now and then.
Click to expand...

1. https://github.com/otland/forgottenserver/
2. Premy board has revs that some people (not Mark or otland staff) have upgraded/fixed/improved/etc and THOSE PEOPLE and not Mark decided to release there.
3. Again: https://github.com/otland/forgottenserver/ there are many tutorials on compiling it
 
Thanks Dom, however I was meaning release the more proprietary stuff they have on their working server and I know they got stuff they don't release here, scripts etc. Shit we all do, someone in some way or another has something "special" they just wont let go of. Not that its bad to do that but if we say open source we need to define what is "open source" and what is just a crack in that open door. If there are some things out there we can only get my buying then why frown upon it.
We can only have it one way or another. Either full open source or settle for the fact there will always be some form of selling take place.
 
Do you seriously expect Mark to release his whole Shadowcores datapack or the custom source changes he has off the public tree?
Maybe you want every OTServer to send you their files and databases? People are putting a lot of work into servers they build. The motion of open source is to give everyone tools to build their server, so we keep TFS source open, there are item editors out there, even RME is open source now. This gives everybody the possibility to ensure that these great tools do not go away when original authors don't want to maintain them.

Selling/buying on Otland has been prohibited to encourage sharing of stuff for free and prevent monetizing EVERYTHING. There are some gifted kids here who charge 5 EUR for scripts they make. This is not a place to make money. These kids will be really successful in getting a real job and making way more money than here. It's a game here, we share stuff to make something fun.

The most important part is that sharing is not mandatory. It comes even from the GPL license terms that OpenTibia software is mostly based on. If you share it, share it with the source code, but you don't have to share it at all. This spans to whatever we make here. People build their servers for fun, for others to have fun and to be proud of what they built. You cannot expect them to give up their hard work for free and let everyone else rip off what they did from Internet and run as their own.

Therefore, I take it as rude to expect Mark to give you his work for free. Real-money trading is restricted here to encourage people to be creative on their own. In other words, there is no way for you to get something unless you build it yourself or somebody is generous enough to share it. On Otland there is no way to buy the glory of authorship.
 
Don Daniello said:
Do you seriously expect Mark to release his whole Shadowcores datapack or the custom source changes he has off the public tree?
Maybe you want every OTServer to send you their files and databases? People are putting a lot of work into servers they build. The motion of open source is to give everyone tools to build their server, so we keep TFS source open, there are item editors out there, even RME is open source now. This gives everybody the possibility to ensure that these great tools do not go away when original authors don't want to maintain them.

Selling/buying on Otland has been prohibited to encourage sharing of stuff for free and prevent monetizing EVERYTHING. There are some gifted kids here who charge 5 EUR for scripts they make. This is not a place to make money. These kids will be really successful in getting a real job and making way more money than here. It's a game here, we share stuff to make something fun.
Click to expand...

Well if you ask me, we are not allowed to post things that others have made, ex summs cast system, but we are allowed to post the masiyah datapack?
I atleast think he is writing about ex. the cast system, that alot of users want. And alot of users are selling copies of elf's cast system Ex. @MartyX.

And you at the same time offer your "service" where you ask ppl to pay you for your so calld "help", idk if you don't care anymore, but the users with troubles using your service has increased alot. If you say you are gonna give them support then do that, or remove that line and write that you occasionally will help them.
If anything, I think you are the wrong person to respond to a thread like this..

And my personal note, Im not blaming @Mark in anyway at all, its thanks to him ot is what it is today, and is updated as much as it is. BUT I feel that the community would grow more if ppl could openly sell / buy scripts that they have made / need help with making.
And also if the buy/sell rule is here, why are ppl allowed to post that they charge for services involving tfs? Ex compiling etc. Ex @dominique120, Sn3jk(I think his name is spelld) and im sure there are ALOT more in the job section.

I can just as easy open up a thread there saying I will help them with lua scripts, or php scripts insted of making a thread saying ive made a script so users can well anything rly. Whats the diffrence except that there is a rule saying im not allowed to advertise that ive created something and want to release, but im allowed to ask ppl to pay me to create things for them.
And with that note, I also think that there should be some kind of block / filter that only users that have been here for a certin time, dosen't have any negetive reputation gained thru that service, verified paypal etc.
That will decrese alot of the scamming that could happen on any type of community like the ot community.


And @Mark saying he has never sold a copy of tfs 0.4, sure you haven't but at the same time, it was either pay for otland premmy or get banned if you found out that I had a copy of 0.4 that someone had leaked, aka the blacklist.


And at the same time I don't agree with @Seksy, if that was what you ment, just becouse Mark has his own server he shoulden't be forced to put his files on github or smth like that.
Either we are an open community = allow everything, allow servers that have been hacked(masiyah - summs cast (not hacked but ye))
or we are a closed community = we don't allow sell/buy (including the job section), we remove all servers that have been hacked(ex masiyah) from the forum.
Its wrong to not choose one of them.
And what im most annoyd with is that its allowed to charge money in the job section but not in a section like the marketplace.
 
Don Daniello said:
Do you seriously expect Mark to release his whole Shadowcores datapack or the custom source changes he has off the public tree?
Maybe you want every OTServer to send you their files and databases? People are putting a lot of work into servers they build. The motion of open source is to give everyone tools to build their server, so we keep TFS source open, there are item editors out there, even RME is open source now. This gives everybody the possibility to ensure that these great tools do not go away when original authors don't want to maintain them.

Selling/buying on Otland has been prohibited to encourage sharing of stuff for free and prevent monetizing EVERYTHING. There are some gifted kids here who charge 5 EUR for scripts they make. This is not a place to make money. These kids will be really successful in getting a real job and making way more money than here. It's a game here, we share stuff to make something fun.

The most important part is that sharing is not mandatory. It comes even from the GPL license terms that OpenTibia software is mostly based on. If you share it, share it with the source code, but you don't have to share it at all. This spans to whatever we make here. People build their servers for fun, for others to have fun and to be proud of what they built. You cannot expect them to give up their hard work for free and let everyone else rip off what they did from Internet and run as their own.

Therefore, I take it as rude to expect Mark to give you his work for free. Real-money trading is restricted here to encourage people to be creative on their own. In other words, there is no way for you to get something unless you build it yourself or somebody is generous enough to share it. On Otland there is no way to buy the glory of authorship.
Click to expand...

I hope you remember me Don :)

It wasn't long ago when you posted "be nice to Newcomers" and I pretty much posted "it's useless, because they are useless and want to make Money, not learn"

It you take a look at the Request and Support section these days you will notice that I was right.

that leads me back to the Topic:
THANK YOU very much for pretty much kicking out the Money w*ores from OTLand!
You can't imagine what a change you made!

I'll let the details slide and THANKS again to Mark for the changes and a proper "YOU ROCK" to everyone who ever contributed to TFS!
You guys create FUN! You ARE OpenTibia.

Never forget that!
 
WibbenZ said:
Well if you ask me, we are not allowed to post things that others have made, ex summs cast system, but we are allowed to post the masiyah datapack?
I atleast think he is writing about ex. the cast system, that alot of users want. And alot of users are selling copies of elf's cast system Ex. @MartyX.
Click to expand...
Elf was selling his cast system long time ago when it was not restricted. It is now and people are not openly selling it (or if they are, feel free to report them).
I don't know what masiyah datapack is and we are not a copyright court here nor are we judging what files were properly released or hacked. Everything is shared here through implied good will. In cases where unintended malicious activity is seen, we CAN take something down.

WibbenZ said:
And you at the same time offer your "service" where you ask ppl to pay you for your so calld "help", idk if you don't care anymore, but the users with troubles using your service has increased alot. If you say you are gonna give them support then do that, or remove that line and write that you occasionally will help them.
If anything, I think you are the wrong person to respond to a thread like this..
Click to expand...
I will not talk about my hosting service's support because it's not the topic here. If you feel I am charging for support, then go check again. We are talking real servers here, they are not free. I pay for them, set them up, install everything for OT and resell them at almost the same price. I put a lot of my own experiences into it so that people can enjoy safe and stable server to focus on developing their servers and avoid getting hacked. The slightly higher price lets me pay compensate for the time when servers are waiting for clients (I pay for them, nobody pays me). I do my best to provide something useful while doing what I love.
Oh, maybe you missed the part that most of my "customer's" questions are answered through private ticket system that you have never seen? You are the wrong person to judge.

WibbenZ said:
And my personal note, Im not blaming @Mark in anyway at all, its thanks to him ot is what it is today, and is updated as much as it is. BUT I feel that the community would grow more if ppl could openly sell / buy scripts that they have made / need help with making.
And also if the buy/sell rule is here, why are ppl allowed to post that they charge for services involving tfs? Ex compiling etc. Ex @dominique120, Sn3jk(I think his name is spelld) and im sure there are ALOT more in the job section.
Click to expand...
Well, we don't feel the same way. Otland doesn't want to grow in trade.
It's a good question why charging for services is allowed. Maybe we should prohibit openly asking for money for "services".

WibbenZ said:
I can just as easy open up a thread there saying I will help them with lua scripts, or php scripts insted of making a thread saying ive made a script so users can well anything rly. Whats the diffrence except that there is a rule saying im not allowed to advertise that ive created something and want to release, but im allowed to ask ppl to pay me to create things for them.
And with that note, I also think that there should be some kind of block / filter that only users that have been here for a certin time, dosen't have any negetive reputation gained thru that service, verified paypal etc.
That will decrese alot of the scamming that could happen on any type of community like the ot community.
Click to expand...
It's not eBay here, if you want to gain reputation, have verified PayPal transactions, really go on eBay. Here nobody cares if you get scammed.

WibbenZ said:
And @Mark saying he has never sold a copy of tfs 0.4, sure you haven't but at the same time, it was either pay for otland premmy or get banned if you found out that I had a copy of 0.4 that someone had leaked, aka the blacklist.
Click to expand...
It was in the rules you accepted when donating.

WibbenZ said:
And at the same time I don't agree with @Seksy, if that was what you ment, just becouse Mark has his own server he shoulden't be forced to put his files on github or smth like that.
Either we are an open community = allow everything, allow servers that have been hacked(masiyah - summs cast (not hacked but ye))
or we are a closed community = we don't allow sell/buy (including the job section), we remove all servers that have been hacked(ex masiyah) from the forum.
Its wrong to not choose one of them.
And what im most annoyd with is that its allowed to charge money in the job section but not in a section like the marketplace.
Click to expand...
You are right, it's probably appropriate to choose one of them. The thing is, in a choice like that, it will most likely be the option number two. The current state where half of trade is prohibited is to make the change less shocking and see the response.
 
Mezara said:
idk why things like this is allowed: http://otland.net/threads/ddg-ots-hosting-service.141037/
but guess it's special privileges
Click to expand...
you said it best :)
Hey im not against learning but these guys yell learn learn learn, but i cant even get a reply on a zombie script here any more. How can I learn if no one is willing to help me? Wibbenz and Dominique have helped me more than anyone on here. Hell I was banned by Daniello for speaking up and saying whats on my mind. LIke Wibbenz said its one or the other guys.
 

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