Necronia - Discussion

[Fargo]

in the end it will be your desition and Tarjeis (Mostly yours) so

Excuse me Javersin, now I may not allow you in the beta now. Forgetting about me

Kidding, but it does become annoying when people forget that there are three deities now. Probably due to the server not being up yet.

 

[Keru]

Sorry Dark~ I know Tarjei and Shiva fro along time now id say about 3 years or 4 now, and it was always only them haha


(but in the end it will be mostly Shivas desition any ways xd)

 

[Sportacus]

I must say I'm very pleased with the response of people and I'm very happy that so many are eager to try this server out. We will try to deliver you the best experience because I know how hungry for a good server people are nowadays.

How do you guys feel about trainers?
I'm contemplating removing the old ones we have completely and letting people train with Summoners.

Later, a new version of training would be introduced that would require interaction (a quick-time eventish type) to advance in skill, and you'd be able to purchase tickets for training sessions like on previous NNW.

Please don't have trainers, the thing I hate most about OTs is logging in, going to trainers, and not playing due to being able to train.

Just have training be in the actual world, so there can be player interaction.

And no, don't include quick-time events to training, this would be an annoyance, and would do nothing to enchance game-play.

People already have to manage food, not dealing too much damage to players/summons, and watching out for PKers and lurers.. if you add in more bullshit to manage while training, you will be taking away from the ability to for players to have 'down time' and being able to relax and socialize.

Yup shiva you have a point, about avoiding afk ppl and stuf, and the nostalgic feeling of those hours training with a partner, but you gotta be realistic and admit it, even if you don't like it and you will do your best to prevent it. There will always be cheaters, and persons who will complain about why there's no Trainers. You say be social and stuff, but what will the summoner gain from the correlation for helping someone to train for hours?

In the olddays of tibia you had your friends and stuff but are you sure there will be enough people to actually make this succeed (Not NNW, but the summoning thing) you have to think about it, even if you think that Cipsoft Fucked everything by making their training system, you gotta think about how much people complained about noone trusting someone else to train with them or stuff.

Remember I'm against trainers and such I'm just trying to been a healty player who gives enough info on both sides of the story, in the end it will be your desition and Tarjeis (Mostly yours) so

The biggest problem with trainers (and offline trainers) is there is no risk involved at all, you can sit 100% afk, and be SAFE.

Thats a big problem.. no one should be safe or get anything for free in the game, they should always be at risk if they are gaining something (such as skills).

When they are out in the open, anyone can come by and start a fight.


As for what the summoners get out of the service.. they can charge money to summon.. they can also make runes, or level up their own skills while training (even on real Tibia, I still trained my club and shielding as a druid.. I mean, why not?)


Also, having training requiring player interaction opens up a whole world of options.. people are forced to talk to each other, make friends, be vulernable to pking, make enemies, get lured on, etc etc.

With trainers and offline training, you take out a key component of player interaction

 

[Keru]

@Sportacus
I do know that man but you gotta be realistic what would you rather have 100 #FackFacesLittleKidsGirlVoiced complaining, or everyone happy to one extent?

If you'd ask me remove it completely and leave it with only summoners, I'm not the one who will be dealing with people complaining at the end jojojoJOjoJojOjoJo !!

 

[Sportacus]

@Sportacus
I do know that man but you gotta be realistic what would you rather have 100 #FackFacesLittleKidsGirlVoiced complaining, or everyone happy to one extent?

If you'd ask me remove it completely and leave it with only summoners, I'm not the one who will be dealing with people complaining at the end jojojoJOjoJojOjoJo !!

Why can't players train with each other? why do they -have- to have a summoner?

You gotta ignore people complaining about some things, not having trainers would be a design choice.


And no, not everyone would be happy, for example, myself, I really hate that players get to gain skills in a free protected zone, and tend to not play servers with trainers (could be why I don't really play Tibia that much anyone)

 

[Shadowsong]

@Sportacus
I do know that man but you gotta be realistic what would you rather have 100 #FackFacesLittleKidsGirlVoiced complaining, or everyone happy to one extent?

If you'd ask me remove it completely and leave it with only summoners, I'm not the one who will be dealing with people complaining at the end jojojoJOjoJojOjoJo !!

That's why I am looking here to see what the community thinks of it. However, from what I've learned , a lot of players in the NNW community are reasonable and mature people who can come up with arguments about why they like or dislike some feature. Such crybabies that can't get over the fact that something in NNW is different won't impact my decision, not now nor ever. And I'm all up for doing the right thing, and pleasing the players. If I never asked this question here and just arranged for that change to be made, there would be less controversy but I like to involve everyone's opinions.

If there is more people with valid arguments about this being a bad idea, I'll forget about it right away.

Personally, I felt the idea of trainers was always very absurd and even in Tibia when I learned that there's a way to train your skills by sitting afk (even if was only via summons at the time) it seemed like a form of cheating to me. The only reason I added it was because I (as a 15 year old kid) felt "that's something that everyone does in servers". Now when I'm actually putting some thought into things, I want to change a lot.

 

[Keru]

Then remove it joojojojo and let the HUNGER GAME BEGIN! haha

Will be fun tho so shiva make the right decision!!! we are counting on you

 

[Zasranets]

I have also disliked the idea of trainers and I always have. I felt like it was cheating, doing something unfair. Then again I do feel like there should be some form of training, but in some way where it can't easily used. Like training monks, that's stupid, as well as offline training cause. I'd like to see you come up with something unique

 

[areas]

Hello! It's Alpha_sk ^_^
I dislike trainers too
My idea is - create a few training locations, with... creattures, like training monks. Anyone can get there and train his skills. BUT! any player can anytime get there and kill someone... if he is afk....
in order to avoid unnecessary deaths, you can create a spell that will carry the trained player in a safe area near the training zone. (spell will only work in this area)
My idea is still a bit raw, but quite unusual and interesting as for me.
If there is a very strong player train - I think players can splat, make a team of 5 people and remove it from there.
Or players can negotiate and train there together, make it a zone of about 6-8 players and all

 

[Shadowsong]

I have also disliked the idea of trainers and I always have. I felt like it was cheating, doing something unfair. Then again I do feel like there should be some form of training, but in some way where it can't easily used. Like training monks, that's stupid, as well as offline training cause. I'd like to see you come up with something unique

I do have a custom way of training planned, like i mentioned before, each vocation has a different quick-time event "minigame" during which their skill increases based on number of successful hits on a moving target dummy (for example) and stuff like that. However I feel it might get a bit repetitive, tho still, it's better than afk training.

 

[EdwardHl]

We already had that and I feel like Summoner training would be better in a way for player socialization, and the RPG aspect is a plus. The casual training system allows people to advance while not being there (AFK gains), which I would like to avoid in the best way possible while retaining the ability to train. As some of you might have noticed, I'm an avid anti-bot person and I'd like everything to involve the player as much as possible, instead of automatized crap.

A part of old tibia's charm (the one that most people liked) is that they had little-to-none automatic features (no hotkeys, no auctioning/marketing, no trainers, etc.) and it made people socialize more to achieve their goals, in turn creating a whole lot of friendships and memories that those people will never forget during their entire life. This is, of course, taking it to a grand scale - but little details such as this are what builds up the whole 'grand scale'.

But anyway, I want to hear you guys out and see what people have against or in favor of this.

I don't get it, you mean that the best way of training will be asking a summoner to.. Well..summon something for you? If that's the case I get you, it's true than that will be more RPG and we'll have to interact with other people, but that way we'll depend on other players, what if we have free time in real life and want to connect and train and there's no summoner online? or a more realistic scenario; what if he dont want to help? I mean he'll be a player to, maybe he wants to lvl up, what happen then?

 

[poopfeast]

does the server have runes? i kinda feel like removing runes completely (besides maybe something like magic walls and paralyze) would make the pvp better, in newer tibias there are hotkeys and pvp just becomes a boring "spam this auto aiming rune hotkey" imo its better to keep it just spell based and not have many powerful projectile spells like exori vis etc

 

[waterland]

wow 79 applications... anyone wanna make this interesting?
my guess is the beta applications reaching 121 by the deadline
say your guesses today june 11th and we'll check june 17th
who ever guessed closest wins... nothing.. but you get to feel good about yourself

 

[Shadowsong]

does the server have runes? i kinda feel like removing runes completely (besides maybe something like magic walls and paralyze) would make the pvp better, in newer tibias there are hotkeys and pvp just becomes a boring "spam this auto aiming rune hotkey" imo its better to keep it just spell based and not have many powerful projectile spells like exori vis etc

There are no runes in NNW right now, but there is an item (or a few of them) that works similar to a rune. For example you can throw grenades to get that GFB effect. However, I have no intention of adding the runes unless we do it in fashion of making a vocation based on them (in future expansions).

wow 79 applications... anyone wanna make this interesting?
my guess is the beta applications reaching 121 by the deadline
say your guesses today june 11th and we'll check june 17th
who ever guessed closest wins... nothing.. but you get to feel good about yourself

Whoever guesses the closest wins a cookie!
I'm already baking them.

I don't get it, you mean that the best way of training will be asking a summoner to.. Well..summon something for you? If that's the case I get you, it's true than that will be more RPG and we'll have to interact with other people, but that way we'll depend on other players, what if we have free time in real life and want to connect and train and there's no summoner online? or a more realistic scenario; what if he dont want to help? I mean he'll be a player to, maybe he wants to lvl up, what happen then?

That's a good question. I believe this alternative way of training that I have in my mind should compensate with 1-2 hour sessions in case there is no summoner available at the given time. So when there is no summoner, you still have a way to train your character but in a different way with slightly less efficiency.

 

[GhostX]

muaha aha hahahaha aha.

:sneaky:


Or... regarding the Trainer thing - why not have the higher level characters unlock (quest?) and use a spell that summons a trainer with a low heal so they'd have to use knives or low hitting weapons (idk about mages.. make runes ;p) and that the spell costs xxx soul/mana per hit/minute. That way it also brings in a money maker for higher levels and then as Javier is stating, if not a huge amount of players - if you get high enough/complete quest, all players can train themselves.

 

[EdwardHl]

Have you ever wonder what would a server without skills be? In my personal opinion it would be a way better game. I hate skills; how you have to stay in a single place without moving, without doing anything, just seeing your character static FOR HOURS.. What if we get skills points along with the lvl? I mean you lvl up from lvl 1 to 2 and you get 2 point on 2 different skills (depends on the vocation), of course it will have a formula so at lvl 100 you'll have.... let's say 70 points in 2 different skills, at lvl 200 you'll 110 and of course there will be a limit cap like 130. I'm just giving random numbers, the staff would choose the right ones to make the game fair. I'd love it cause I HATE the actual system.

 

[Sportacus]

I don't get it, you mean that the best way of training will be asking a summoner to.. Well..summon something for you? If that's the case I get you, it's true than that will be more RPG and we'll have to interact with other people, but that way we'll depend on other players, what if we have free time in real life and want to connect and train and there's no summoner online? or a more realistic scenario; what if he dont want to help? I mean he'll be a player to, maybe he wants to lvl up, what happen then?

I hope you can still train skills like in real tibia.. using a weapon of the skill type.. which means as long as you can hit something.. or someone, you can train, I hope you wouldn't be forced to -only- train with summoned monsters.

So, just like real Tibia, you can get a weak weapon, and hit a friend to 'train'... or PAY someone to summon you a monster, so you don't have to worry about killing it.


And, I know I mentioned this before, but please no quick time events for training zzz skill gaining should be integrated into all parts of the game.. as in, you can skill up when you are just killing monsters.

But if you mean like a special situation like going to a school to learn to be a better archer, and having to shoot an arrow and hit a moving target, which based on your success rate would give you a big net gain of the skill in question, THAT would be interesting.. but that would cost money/tokens/tickets..
But you should still be able to 'train' normally, just that would be a 'boosted' way to train.

 

[Sportacus]

Have you ever wonder what would a server without skills be? In my personal opinion it would be a way better game. I hate skills; how you have to stay in a single place without moving, without doing anything, just seeing your character static FOR HOURS.. What if we get skills points along with the lvl? I mean you lvl up from lvl 1 to 2 and you get 2 point on 2 different skills (depends on the vocation), of course it will have a formula so at lvl 100 you'll have.... let's say 70 points in 2 different skills, at lvl 200 you'll 110 and of course there will be a limit cap like 130. I'm just giving random numbers, the staff would choose the right ones to make the game fair. I'd love it cause I HATE the actual system.

You were never suppose to train 'afk' or in a safe place. meaning you were always suppose to be at risk of getting pked, lured on, or just plainly doing too much damage to your training partner.

The skill gaining was a simple concept.. the more you use a skill, the better you get at it.

But to be honest, I enjoy being able to kinda 'sit around and relax' and train with some friends, I am still at risk cause people can walk up on me, but this sort of 'passive game play' allows players to actually talk to each other and interact in ways that would never happen without training.

and yeah, your 'point system' that you get points when you level is sorta neat, but you are removing player interaction if you do that for skills. You already gain so much when you level anyway.

You get more HP, MP, more cap, faster walking speed, and more damage already from leveling.. it is already the best way for you to spend your time in game (leveling), why does it need even more?

Part of the place of 'training/skilling' is to curb the power gain of straight leveling, allowing people to do more damage with a skill type by using it more, and allowing passive play.


FYI, Passive play is NOT bad, sometimes I get home from work, or training, and I am just dead beat tired, I wanna get better at the game I am playing, and I just want to relax as well.

Tibia allowed me to log in, grab a friend, and train while we talked, listened to music, whatever, just taking it easy.

I got stronger (more skills), was able to work on magic level, and even make supplies.

I still had to look out for PKers and etc, but hey, it let me stay apart of the game, when real life had be beat down too much to do anything too intensive.

and of course, it would have been better for me to have gone leveling instead of training, but I was too beat up from my real life to do so, and it was really cool that Tibia allowed a why for me to still play during those times, please don't take it away or minimize it.

 

[GhostX]

muaha. aha. ahahahahaha.

:sneaky:

 

[EdwardHl]

You were never suppose to train 'afk' or in a safe place. meaning you were always suppose to be at risk of getting pked, lured on, or just plainly doing too much damage to your training partner.

The skill gaining was a simple concept.. the more you use a skill, the better you get at it.

But to be honest, I enjoy being able to kinda 'sit around and relax' and train with some friends, I am still at risk cause people can walk up on me, but this sort of 'passive game play' allows players to actually talk to each other and interact in ways that would never happen without training.

and yeah, your 'point system' that you get points when you level is sorta neat, but you are removing player interaction if you do that for skills. You already gain so much when you level anyway.

You get more HP, MP, more cap, faster walking speed, and more damage already from leveling.. it is already the best way for you to spend your time in game (leveling), why does it need even more?

Part of the place of 'training/skilling' is to curb the power gain of straight leveling, allowing people to do more damage with a skill type by using it more, and allowing passive play.


FYI, Passive play is NOT bad, sometimes I get home from work, or training, and I am just dead beat tired, I wanna get better at the game I am playing, and I just want to relax as well.

Tibia allowed me to log in, grab a friend, and train while we talked, listened to music, whatever, just taking it easy.

I got stronger (more skills), was able to work on magic level, and even make supplies.

I still had to look out for PKers and etc, but hey, it let me stay apart of the game, when real life had be beat down too much to do anything too intensive.

and of course, it would have been better for me to have gone leveling instead of training, but I was too beat up from my real life to do so, and it was really cool that Tibia allowed a why for me to still play during those times, please don't take it away or minimize it.

Actually I never said that we were supposed to train AFK, I said that it was pretty boring and pointless seeing your character static, without doing anything but making those yellow/red crosses. And please lets be realistic, you wont interact that much if you want to train with somebody, it will be more like:
- Buy monk
- 10k/hr
- Ok
Like I said there'll be a formula so the game have balance and be fair.
"Tibia allowed me to log in, grab a friend, and train while we talked, listened to music, whatever, just taking it easy". If you want to interact or talk with someone while listening to music just go to the dp or do it via pm, hey I got a better idea, hunt monsters with him.
The actual skill system is pointless, boring and trash, like always, in my own opinion.