The Custom Stats Discussion

[Codinablack]

That's why you have to make the stats barely affect anything, that way after 300 levels (should be hard to get if its rpg), it does a very significant amount of difference but nothing so dramatic that no one can kill you, you also should add in more variables to pvp itself, just like you are doing with theimaginedserver @Flatlander , you already know all this though... PVP itself just needs more elements to help balance, and make fighting more of a skill..

 

[Raging_Mage]

Works both ways tho. I get 2 speed friends and I am pure at. Have them block you and I atk you die. Or if you at me I go upstairs and wait.. no where to run. If you talk about tibia a mage is always faster so should be immortal to knights. But most don't mes with knights.. honestly it should be an option and the players should decide. Your preference is speed. Others might want something else. Also depends on how much speed is affected. What if maxing speed only gives you 10 levels of speed? Then would it be worth it? 30% atk at max or 10 levels speed.. I'll take the at and cast haste..get a mount or boh.. all depends on how its set up.

 

[Flatlander]

That's why you have to make the stats barely affect anything, that way after 300 levels (should be hard to get if its rpg), it does a very significant amount of difference but nothing so dramatic that no one can kill you, you also should add in more variables to pvp itself, just like you are doing with theimaginedserver @Flatlander , you already know all this though... PVP itself just needs more elements to help balance, and make fighting more of a skill..

My server, and even most of Xagulz servers we take out speed differences per levels. It is simply unfair when someone has a faster base-speed than you in pvp.

Works both ways tho. I get 2 speed friends and I am pure at. Have them block you and I atk you die. Or if you at me I go upstairs and wait.. no where to run. If you talk about tibia a mage is always faster so should be immortal to knights. But most don't mes with knights.. honestly it should be an option and the players should decide. Your preference is speed. Others might want something else. Also depends on how much speed is affected. What if maxing speed only gives you 10 levels of speed? Then would it be worth it? 30% atk at max or 10 levels speed.. I'll take the at and cast haste..get a mount or boh.. all depends on how its set up.

Knights in PvP on RL tibia (good ones) always carry around Time Rings, and if the mage also had a time ring, they'd just give up. Plus, they WERE useless for a long time in PvP, until they were given the spell "Charge" (They were given charge specifically because of the complaints of knights that they were useless in pvp because everyone could just run away from them and they would never hit anyone). Mages could just strong haste away from a knight and the knight would re-log onto his mage 2ndary character because it was impossible to PvP on a knight unless you were Way higher level, or the mage was not premium (couldn't use strong haste)

But lets say on Tibia, I could either increase my speed, my damage, or my armor. Well, i'd probably increase my damage while hunting, and speed in PvP.

Dont' get me wrong, damage and armor do help in PvP, but it isn't NEARLY as important as speed. Speed is everything in tibia, if I could reduce my max hp and mana as a mage by 50% and gain 10% more movement speed I would. Speed matters most and it is overpowered if you can get much faster than other players.

**EDIT**
By the way, you will notice in every single PvP-style game, they limit how much speed you can get VERY CAREFULLY.
League of Legends for example, you can increase your damage so that you can one hit everything, and heal to full hp with every shot, but you are VERY limited in how fast you can get. And most speed boost items are activated, so they have limits. Because all game developers know, Speed in combat, is everything.

Anyways! Good luck on your stat system, You can balance it once you find issues, I was just backing up the other guy that was concerned about Speed ruining pvp.

 

[Codinablack]

My server, and even most of Xagulz servers we take out speed differences per levels. It is simply unfair when someone has a faster base-speed than you in pvp.



Knights in PvP on RL tibia (good ones) always carry around Time Rings, and if the mage also had a time ring, they'd just give up. Plus, they WERE useless for a long time in PvP, until they were given the spell "Charge" (They were given charge specifically because of the complaints of knights that they were useless in pvp because everyone could just run away from them and they would never hit anyone). Mages could just strong haste away from a knight and the knight would re-log onto his mage 2ndary character because it was impossible to PvP on a knight unless you were Way higher level, or the mage was not premium (couldn't use strong haste)

But lets say on Tibia, I could either increase my speed, my damage, or my armor. Well, i'd probably increase my damage while hunting, and speed in PvP.

Dont' get me wrong, damage and armor do help in PvP, but it isn't NEARLY as important as speed. Speed is everything in tibia, if I could reduce my max hp and mana as a mage by 50% and gain 10% more movement speed I would. Speed matters most and it is overpowered if you can get much faster than other players.

**EDIT**
By the way, you will notice in every single PvP-style game, they limit how much speed you can get VERY CAREFULLY.
League of Legends for example, you can increase your damage so that you can one hit everything, and heal to full hp with every shot, but you are VERY limited in how fast you can get. And most speed boost items are activated, so they have limits. Because all game developers know, Speed in combat, is everything.

Anyways! Good luck on your stat system, You can balance it once you find issues, I was just backing up the other guy that was concerned about Speed ruining pvp.

I believe you to be correct. Speed is most important in combat, including real life. HOWEVER, to many other variables can factor in. Sure if someone is fast enough to get away then they won't die. But in gameplay, as programmers/developers we have the skills to be able to solve these types of problems. Example, rogue is too fast, if they get close to escaping, then the hydro-elementalist will just freeze him, or geomancer traps him with vines (wild growth), or there is a rune that teleports you to target, idk, w/e you can think of, that's my point, is that yes speed is the best, however a skilled developer (just as you pointed out about all mmo's), will think of this, and can come up with many ways to counter this, such as limits, or special abilities, cooldowns, w/e, many ways...

 

[Flatlander]

I believe you to be correct. Speed is most important in combat, including real life. HOWEVER, to many other variables can factor in. Sure if someone is fast enough to get away then they won't die. But in gameplay, as programmers/developers we have the skills to be able to solve these types of problems. Example, rogue is too fast, if they get close to escaping, then the hydro-elementalist will just freeze him, or geomancer traps him with vines (wild growth), or there is a rune that teleports you to target, idk, w/e you can think of, that's my point, is that yes speed is the best, however a skilled developer (just as you pointed out about all mmo's), will think of this, and can come up with many ways to counter this, such as limits, or special abilities, cooldowns, w/e, many ways...

I completely agree with you, you can balance out one vocation being fast, by other vocations having slows, stuns, taunts, traps, etc.

The issue would be when any vocation can be the fastest vocation due to stats. Breaking that balance.
We can fight theorycrafting all day, It is possible that it will work, I was just expressing concerns.

As I said before, I wish this project the best of luck!

 

[Raging_Mage]

I played on a 7.4 server so no charge and when people pk they don't go for knights. One of the biggest random pkers was a lv 90 ek. But again its up to players. The games aren't just PvP.. extra DMG would be wanted the first 50 levels then speed.. this way you can kill mobs easier and later on kill the faster when they are easier. And yeah a speed guild would be OK.. question.. what do you do when a strength guild goes up a ladder and waits? All get combined? Or a hole or anything. Tibia is strategy based.. whoever has the best strategy wins.

 

[Codinablack]

I completely agree with you, you can balance out one vocation being fast, by other vocations having slows, stuns, taunts, traps, etc.

The issue would be when any vocation can be the fastest vocation due to stats. Breaking that balance.
We can fight theorycrafting all day, It is possible that it will work, I was just expressing concerns.

As I said before, I wish this project the best of luck!

True, we definitely can talk theorycrafting all day! Your concern is very real, only reason I find myself in this discussion is simply because I have already been developing a system very close to this one. However mine gives points based of vocation (upon level advance) to spend on a certain stat, then within that stat has sub-categories that you can spend that stats points on, however say you have 10 Attack points, then you would need 5 more to upgrade a skill such as sword, axe, club, ect. So mine is slightly different, in that all vocations can decide to beef up their "weaknesses", but the real concern that you expressed still exists, and I have been working on making everything as balanced as possible.

@topic

How about a system like the one I described above, whereas there are categories (such as the ones you listed as stats) and then subcategories which you can spend within that particular stat (such as the listing of properties that are increased by such stat), on a particular upgrade. Example

Knight gains 3 strength points per level, inside of strength you have the sub categories of sword skill, axe skill, or maybe even health. Anyways now to increase your health you are required to spend X amount of strength points... Just an idea, this is how I am trying to do my system, right now with categories, Attack, Defense, Speed, Magic. Then you can add more things later easily, like for defense, say it only counts for your armor or shielding, then later on you want to design "resistance", or more specific like "fire resistance" you could do so more easily. And of course I use modalwindow as the interface and I would also suggest to use modalwindow, however if you have another idea, I would be very interested in hearing it.

 

[Cadyan]

Flatlander I think you're confusing speed with movement speed. It is quite possible that "Speed" will have minor effect on movement, while having major other properties like cooldown bonuses. Of course I know what you're talking about, and I partially agree. We don't want comets shooting around the map instead of players. That being said, I really like the idea for sub categories for stats - which could be improved upon.

 

[Codinablack]

Flatlander I think you're confusing speed with movement speed. It is quite possible that "Speed" will have minor effect on movement, while having major other properties like cooldown bonuses. Of course I know what you're talking about, and I partially agree. We don't want comets shooting around the map instead of players. That being said, I really like the idea for sub categories for stats - which could be improved upon.

Movement Speed would actually fall under speed. If you pay real close attention, you can see he does know the difference, and movement speed isn't the only thing affected by speed. A vocation with high speed may move faster, attack faster, many things, all of these of which can cause a huge advantage..........

 

[Cadyan]

Well now that is clarified. What about turn based events? Would turn based Speed still be too huge of an advantage?

 

[Flatlander]

Well now that is clarified. What about turn based events? Would turn based Speed still be too huge of an advantage?

You could make it so the speed stat does not upgrade movement speed, but upgrades speed-spells. So haste spells would make you even faster. That way you could still balance it.

Tibia is turn-based, but it regulates "turns" by attack-speed, exhaustion, cooldowns, and movement speed. So faster turn speed, would basically be upgrading all of these wouldn't it?

 

[Cadyan]

You could make it so the speed stat does not upgrade movement speed, but upgrades speed-spells. So haste spells would make you even faster. That way you could still balance it.

Tibia is turn-based, but it regulates "turns" by attack-speed, exhaustion, cooldowns, and movement speed. So faster turn speed, would basically be upgrading all of these wouldn't it?

Technically yes, unless the turns were considered non-live-combat features (possibly an event). So essentially speed would have to be limited to things other than movement and attacking.

I like the idea for upgrading spells, or possibly cooldown reductions for certain spells.

 

[Breed]

I like the idea for upgrading spells

I've built this system already, its actually quite easy to do
I might release it soon.

 

[Cadyan]

I've built this system already, its actually quite easy to do
I might release it soon.

Yea it's all good man. This is just a discussion thread that is open to everyone.

 

[Breed]

Well i can release it now, but it won't be complete, like it won't be implemented into every spell you will need to do that yourself I just have the engine I guess you can call it written up.

 

[Cadyan]

Well i can release it now, but it won't be complete, like it won't be implemented into every spell you will need to do that yourself I just have the engine I guess you can call it written up.

Won't make a difference to me, I don't ever play or create OT. Might be interesting for the community though. Probably best to make it open source if you do a release though.

 

[Breed]

Won't make a difference to me, I don't ever play or create OT. Might be interesting for the community though. Probably best to make it open source if you do a release though.

I did its in my signature see --------- V

 

[Cadyan]

Ah cool man. That's what this forum is all about really, community.

 

[Flatlander]

There are a thousand ways to build a stat system @Breed. Most of them require special circumstances, and you have to edit tons of other scripts sometimes to make them work.

No single stat system works for all servers, so even releasing yours wouldn't necissarily even work for the creator of this topic.

 

[Breed]

There are a thousand ways to build a stat system @Breed. Most of them require special circumstances, and you have to edit tons of other scripts sometimes to make them work.

No single stat system works for all servers, so even releasing yours wouldn't necissarily even work for the creator of this topic.

I could write one that could, sure my system seems incomplete where it applies to spells but this was intentional and in actuality it could apply to anything.

All I really did was give a basic foundation and left the creativity up to the developer, I'm not one to just copy and paste code I like to take it apart and see how it could be in other ways, these few releases are not the extent of my capabilities or imagination but why should I do all the work

There is a huge amount of us on theses forums releasing our work in the hopes that it redefines the definition of what it is to be a server, somethings get added to the official release while others are lost to the void.

I've learned quite a bit from the scripts that are released here on these forums this is why i released some of mine, in the hopes that it helps someone else build something spectacular.