you need to know to a what you call botting since i did just see someone maybe using macro to fish if he respond to you just keep talking to him for me it was unfair.
[USA] [7.4] Dura - A Harder Tibia | Massively Customized | New Meta | Long Term | Regular Updates | Never Reset | For Skilled Players
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Astalavista
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Not playin this server but shit got highlighted, went for some popcorn and started readin.
Just checking the vids of this serverino.
If u didn't ban that shit, you've got a lot more of those wankers running around my man.
Dream on and hope for 0.0000001% it's not a bot on your own server. Cheaters deserve to get banned. Be fair to your honest community, and you'll get a lot further with your server.
Just checking the vids of this serverino.
Idk what u guys drunk if u don't see 100% clear that it's a bot.
If u didn't ban that shit, you've got a lot more of those wankers running around my man.
Dream on and hope for 0.0000001% it's not a bot on your own server. Cheaters deserve to get banned. Be fair to your honest community, and you'll get a lot further with your server.
OP
OP
Dura Aris
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This is what I have said in our Discord, one on the idea of corruption and two on what really happened:
What happened:
- I woke up from sleep.
- GM ZapZap informed me of an appeal for a ban.
- I asked for the video and Michael to join me.
- I watched it, and said "damnit, this isn't good enough. too many holes for it to be conclusive"
- While watching I was informed of the desire from many players to have conference with me and fellow staff
- I told God Michael and ZapZap my thought process and we all universally agreed, probably cheating but not conclusive
- We went to join them in conference
- I had Leo explain what happened. ZapZap translated.
- We listened.
- We said it's probably chearing but inconclusive and therefore you will be unbanned.
- Michael unbanned him.
- We explained how we're shoring up the rules so this no longer happens. That there will be a new rule where you are responsible for your character which I've already detailed.
- That's it.
The idea of corruption is frankly... I don't even want to say it.
Accusations of corruption have no basis if you examine the case and its facts. There is a basis for disagreement, for controversy, for stupidity (and I obviously disagree), for foolishness.
The safest [for Administration] (and also most corrupt route) would have been after seeing the video "Well it's not conclusive but if we unban him, doing the right thing, we're gonna have a shitstorm on our hands and people will be more plaintive where as instead if we just let it stand as is, state he's cheating, nothing will come of it, we let a potential innocent go into the slammer so we don't take the flak."
Rumors are nasty things. And in the age of Social Media and Information as well as many people having unfortunately a great deal of time on their hands and little to do they seize on scattered and fragmented information, as well as rumor and speculation, and run with it to pulpit and altar assuming it's absolute truth. The idea of our decision to unban based on emotional threats of the moment, which came after the fact to our awareness of the actual decision, is a fantasy.
I also wrote this in our Discord:
This case was already being reviewed before anyone said any emotionally whipped statements that could not be seriously construed as Sever Threats to Dura as you claim. It's like any common court of law where saying "I want to kill you!" is not admissible evidence that this person was actually going to kill a man. People seeing a friend banned improperly, which is what occurred, in 2021 with Forums, Discord, Whatsapp, Facebook at their fingertips would be expected to emotionally lose themselves a bit saying "War!" I didn't then and I don't now take this as a serious threat because of the aforeexplained. Other people/groups on Dura have also make such types of impulsive claims in passing. If there was ever detected a serious threat in the way you describe, it would be deemed actual Destructive Behavior and would be categorically banned on the spot.
I've always appreciated your criticism Lamusini but as I've stated above the idea of corruption is absurd and you should frankly retract it. Baning and unbaning cheaters is worst thing you can do. Ban shall be final!!!! This is true politically, it doesn't look good but it is the right thing to do. You cannot always expect the first judgement to be correct; the concept of 'appeal' exists for a reason.
The other points you've made have no bearing on this matter, and while things should be and have already been tweaked in the directions you've proposed in essence I disagree with you in your analysis. Item and Exp quests are now functioning exactly as we want. I'm not aware of bugs in monster behavior. Realm's Aid or what you call the Social Rune System is necessary, otherwise 7.4 is nothing but a pyramid scheme; the highest levels suck all the runes from the lowest.
As always I appreciate your words Lamusini,
Aris
it's only 98% proof
Personally, I would ban him with the whole family. Those who then threatened to blow up the server, I would also send to Deletera too
Ok, and that's your right for your game. However I can only imagine how many people you've banned who were not actually cheating. I assume if you ban for the above with jocular ease, which I approximately rate at "98%", I would imagine you ban for as low as "95%" and so forth.
I also wrote this on Discord on this context:
I understand some people want blood. Why? Because we hate cheating. I hate cheating too. I designed and FOUNDED Dura much on the basis that I detest cheating and that it ruined the once great game and it was paramount that I eliminate all forms of it. Macro, Bot, but even the in-game forms of cheating like Online-Trainers, P2W mechanisms, and more.
However we, and I always will, must preserve the possible light of innocence, even if a sliver in size, to pierce the dark maw of hunger for the want of blood of all cheaters, who, for all those years we played Tibia ruined the game we love and we hated that they did so.
Hi Olddies, I didn't quite understand your statement. Are you saying it was unfair we unbanned him because the character in question was definitely cheating or are you saying it was unfair to ban the character in the first place because it was inconclusive? Thanks
I understand and appreciate that you believe without question it was cheating. We don't have that luxury when we take Players hundreds of hours of time spent on their Accounts into our hands. It must be definitive and conclusive evidence to ban a person. You might think differently if it was your character/account on trial and even though it was highly likely it appeared you were cheating or violating rules if it wasn't conclusive you do not deserve deletion. It is unjust.
The idea that if I had to bet I would bet against him cheating is ludicrous, of course he is probably cheating. But you can't convict someone on probably, it must be definitive. You can look above to my comments on what actual corruption looks like.
As well there is another form of corruption: laziness. It's easy to circulate player by player and just ban on probables and gut instinct. It's much harder to do things by the letter of the law and make sure you give the benefit of doubt and fair trial to the ones you seek to punish.
It would be nice if life was always Black and White and there was never messiness. But that's not how the world works, there is gray often, as well as messiness. And from that always imperfect conclusions must be drawn with controversial and non-uniformly approved decisions.
Best
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Stank
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What's done is done. There have been lengthy conversations between staff and players aswell as multiple explanations provided in the public Dura discord regarding what took place. We are not trying to "cover" anything up. I think the majority of players can see that our staff members mean well and that we are not corrupt. We wont be deleting comments about this situation as they are your thoughts and opinions but I ask you guys that once you express your opinion, please don't spam the forum over and over with negativity. I would very much like to continue posting images and stories which highlight the many positive qualities of Dura.
On a related note, I said this on the Dura discord and I will say it here - In no way were our staff threatened into unbanning the player in question. That is simply not true and will never happen. We know that our decision to reverse the ban was right based on the investigation that was conducted. Rules and protocols have been adjusted and put into place to ensure that this type of situation will not reoccur.
I would hope that if any of you were ever misrepresented, missunderstood OR made a mistake/bad judgement call, that the people privy to that knowledge would be as patient, open-minded and forgiving as the majority of people we are blessed to have playing Dura.
Thank you for taking the time to read this and if you are someone who has read all of these negative comments and they've turned you off of trying Dura, I hope that you will consider giving the game a try regardless and see what this great server has to offer.
CM Jaym
On a related note, I said this on the Dura discord and I will say it here - In no way were our staff threatened into unbanning the player in question. That is simply not true and will never happen. We know that our decision to reverse the ban was right based on the investigation that was conducted. Rules and protocols have been adjusted and put into place to ensure that this type of situation will not reoccur.
I would hope that if any of you were ever misrepresented, missunderstood OR made a mistake/bad judgement call, that the people privy to that knowledge would be as patient, open-minded and forgiving as the majority of people we are blessed to have playing Dura.
Thank you for taking the time to read this and if you are someone who has read all of these negative comments and they've turned you off of trying Dura, I hope that you will consider giving the game a try regardless and see what this great server has to offer.
CM Jaym
Adposatnr
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it must be botters paradise on dura then as all u need to bot 24/7 without punishment is using bot with alarm trigger on gm/message/player on screen and eventually add to it pausebot on gm/message even if gm approach u and show up u can always say something like u got net kick or electricity cut and u'll be fine
From my and probably many other players perspective it looks like a staff which should hunt and punish botters actually defending them but not everybody was lucky enough to have gm being not sure ban or not ban him
buuuuuut heeeey we will have few A4 posts by gm aris and his 9124912941 tutors it will be fine right? nothing happened anti-cheaters rule rework soon right?
@aris
Well for me its not fair if your stuff decide to ban someone and after few talks you decide to unban guy.
In 1st post you wrote that you will fight with cheating. If you want to have a bit nicer policy in this case. I propose think about it that's way:
1st ban - 7 days
2nd ban - 30 days
3rd ban - 90 days
4th ban - final
Each ban can be lowered to one stage left after one year. For example - some1 cheated in february 2021, got catched - got 7 days ban. Later didnt cheat or wasnt catched for 1 year. And in february 2022 he got clean history. Next ban will be 7 days. If he had 30 days ban, after year he go step back like he had 7 days, and if he get baned again it will be 30 days again. etc. etc.
Social rune system - lets go back to it:
Formula was lvl*100/rune cost - so for example 80lv rp got 80 uhs everyday+ he can have for example 3 more characters lv 20 - each one take 1bp uh/day. if they die runes stop to be soulbounded - so for example player can have 11 bp of uhs.+bedmages+mana siting. So good thinking person can have like 77bp+ uhs after just one week without taking much time into game. I don't think so it should work this way. But it's your server and yours decisions!
When I left your server, I gave my account to some friend and he was amazed I had so many runes, because i didn't spend much. And I was playing just low level character.
Well for me its not fair if your stuff decide to ban someone and after few talks you decide to unban guy.
In 1st post you wrote that you will fight with cheating. If you want to have a bit nicer policy in this case. I propose think about it that's way:
1st ban - 7 days
2nd ban - 30 days
3rd ban - 90 days
4th ban - final
Each ban can be lowered to one stage left after one year. For example - some1 cheated in february 2021, got catched - got 7 days ban. Later didnt cheat or wasnt catched for 1 year. And in february 2022 he got clean history. Next ban will be 7 days. If he had 30 days ban, after year he go step back like he had 7 days, and if he get baned again it will be 30 days again. etc. etc.
Social rune system - lets go back to it:
Formula was lvl*100/rune cost - so for example 80lv rp got 80 uhs everyday+ he can have for example 3 more characters lv 20 - each one take 1bp uh/day. if they die runes stop to be soulbounded - so for example player can have 11 bp of uhs.+bedmages+mana siting. So good thinking person can have like 77bp+ uhs after just one week without taking much time into game. I don't think so it should work this way. But it's your server and yours decisions!
When I left your server, I gave my account to some friend and he was amazed I had so many runes, because i didn't spend much. And I was playing just low level character.
Who are you anyway? Never seen or noticed you online as a CM on Dura.
Perhaps you've been desensitized by Stanks post of pretty pictures (It does look like it works to distract simple minded fellas like you).
However in my perspective, his explanation of a guild ganging up in order to coerce a creator, owner of a server, in order to unban a cheater concerns me very much.
I do not think he has been dramatic enough. In any case, he was more comical than dramatic with his mic drop. I think he should have been more dramatic.
From what I have understood, there was a threat. A THREAT. to destroy a server. And the Owner had to comply because he had no choice as I am understood. (Note that this is the definition of cyber terrorism.)
And the community, which should be reacting to these Brazilian threats and manipulation negatively and against it, simply isn't.
I don't know what kind of shitty fairy tale land you live in Maesus where I can threaten you and if I'm bigger than you, you just gotta suck it up, slurp my cum and turn around for my second round. But in a society built by people (who in my opinion are intelligent and rational enough) this shit should not fly by.
How am I to feel safe to create my own server?
I would say Aris should have banned the cheater and anyone who broke the rules in order to "destroy the server" as well.
However, knowing how the community is reacting to such types of threats and attacks, I wouldn't be so quick to put the blame on Aris.
EDIT: I am not bothering to read or listen to Stank as it is more than obvious he is here as a distraction or a scapegoat.
EDIT 2: That guy is obviously macroing lmao.
I didn't know that people took threats to destroying someone's business, perhaps livelihood, and community such as lightly as you.
Perhaps you've been desensitized by Stanks post of pretty pictures (It does look like it works to distract simple minded fellas like you).
However in my perspective, his explanation of a guild ganging up in order to coerce a creator, owner of a server, in order to unban a cheater concerns me very much.
I do not think he has been dramatic enough. In any case, he was more comical than dramatic with his mic drop. I think he should have been more dramatic.
From what I have understood, there was a threat. A THREAT. to destroy a server. And the Owner had to comply because he had no choice as I am understood. (Note that this is the definition of cyber terrorism.)
And the community, which should be reacting to these Brazilian threats and manipulation negatively and against it, simply isn't.
I don't know what kind of shitty fairy tale land you live in Maesus where I can threaten you and if I'm bigger than you, you just gotta suck it up, slurp my cum and turn around for my second round. But in a society built by people (who in my opinion are intelligent and rational enough) this shit should not fly by.
How am I to feel safe to create my own server?
I would say Aris should have banned the cheater and anyone who broke the rules in order to "destroy the server" as well.
However, knowing how the community is reacting to such types of threats and attacks, I wouldn't be so quick to put the blame on Aris.
EDIT: I am not bothering to read or listen to Stank as it is more than obvious he is here as a distraction or a scapegoat.
EDIT 2: That guy is obviously macroing lmao.
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Orkanite
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Drapsheik in case you hadn't noticed the forum is called Server Gala (gala: a festive occasion; celebration; special entertainment). CM Jaym is instrumental in showing the community all that is great about Dura. Why you involve her in your criticisms and act as though her posts are needless propaganda is beyond me. While your arguments may or may not have merit, the fact that you choose to chastise Jaym for posting fun events and pictures leads me to believe you're a spiteful schlub. Dura has a million great characteristics that deserve the mainstage. "And the community, which should be reacting to these Brazilian threats and manipulation negatively and against it, simply isn't." Brazillian Rage has been disbanded, and many of its players have quit due to pressure from the community. This statement is unfounded.
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1 stop simping
2 I just said she is spamming over actual issues that would help in SERVER GALA. Server gala is not just to paint pretty pictures; it is to inform players of what they are getting into as well, to see what kind of server it is being run. However she keeps spamming pictures one after the other making it blatantly obvious she wants to be louder than the complains.
3 My argument was not even about this person "Stank" lmao so don't deviate.
4 I was looking for an answer in the forums to see if the issues were addressed. However me, as a player who wants more info on the server, could not get a clear image since I saw complains being dismissed left and right by pretty pictures. I certainly would not want to be in the shoes or those being ignored. Remember, you might end up there too.
Orkanite
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I'll do whatever I damn well please.
Tell me she wasn't regularly posting promotion shots before this drama began and didn't simply continue doing so. It's not like her posts somehow detract from others' and were introduced as some sort of countermeasure. The only people who would be frazzled enough to not get as clear a picture as they need either don't care enough or have the attention span of a goldfish. They can easily decide for themselves without you babysitting them and trying to clear a space for what you personally think is most important.
Tell me she wasn't regularly posting promotion shots before this drama began and didn't simply continue doing so. It's not like her posts somehow detract from others' and were introduced as some sort of countermeasure. The only people who would be frazzled enough to not get as clear a picture as they need either don't care enough or have the attention span of a goldfish. They can easily decide for themselves without you babysitting them and trying to clear a space for what you personally think is most important.
dutchie1
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Having fun so far. People are so bitchy about a cheater. Client needs some work, elite monsters are cool. English community is pretty great, lots of help all around. If you need any starting shit drop me a PM in OtLand.
Good concept imo. Not the stale 7.4 real map stuff that gets boring after 3 days.
Good concept imo. Not the stale 7.4 real map stuff that gets boring after 3 days.
Stank
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Hey Helaxo, you can read further up in the forum to find out more about that situation if you'd like. Aris adressed it.Did that fishing cheater not get banned?
I think a fresh start in EU would be a good idea!
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Happy Thirsty Thursday everyone!
This server should NOT be taken seriously. Extremely immature owners/GM's which are first of all scared to ban people (unless you are a low level), but also silence different opinions. Don't be surprised if they even interfere with the gameplay if they dislike you, or like other players more than you.
Way too many chefs in this kitchen, not sustainable for a serious server. They are like an over protecting parent towards their server, but doing so even damages the server even more. Otherwise the idea of the server is good but extremely bad executed.
NOT RECOMMENDED as in current state!
Way too many chefs in this kitchen, not sustainable for a serious server. They are like an over protecting parent towards their server, but doing so even damages the server even more. Otherwise the idea of the server is good but extremely bad executed.
NOT RECOMMENDED as in current state!
OP
OP
Dura Aris
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@Rollern
Hi Rollern,
I'm sorry you feel this way Rollern. I like to know what's going on with Dura so if you could provide clarity on these points I would appreciate it:
Whose opinions were silenced and by whom?
Whose gameplay has been interfered with?
Best,
Aris
@Drapsheik
Hi Drapsheik,
To the issue your concerned about: I didn't respond to it because I didn't feel it needed to be. The above posts detail exactly what happened. Based on the player you're referring to he deserved to be banned. After Staff conferred about the situation we came to this conclusion. The evidence necessary for such a ban was detailed by the posts above as well. The player in question intentionally exploited a bug in the 'Process-of-Security' to gain an unfair advantage. He admitted and gloated about it. On top of this he spread false information, i.e. saying in a Video he published that these said items were given to him by a GM when instead he exploited a bug behind the GM's back, which is also bannable by the rules, i.e. the spreading of false information intentionally, as well as non-cooperating with a GM. So in sum you have three Rule-Violations, each of which alone constitute Account Deletion: Spreading False Information Intentionally, Non-Cooperation with a GM, and Exploitation of a Bug to gain unfair advantage.
If you're puzzled by the confusion from multiple Staff decisions which were at odds, in a short amount of time mind you, it's like at a Sporting Game when referee's decide to convene together after a disagreement on the call of play. After convening they discuss what they all saw and understood and a new conclusion from the pooled information is reached. Personally I rarely buy into conspiracy, I'm much more partial to Occam's Razor. Conspiracy requires far more brainpower and resources than convoluted forces that we are so often susceptible to, i.e. imperfection.
I'm sorry if you wanted a Response sooner but I, like the rest of our Upper Staff am very busy. I can't always give a response immediately as it takes time. As far as CM's like CM Jaym. Her job is not a gamemaster, nor is it to ban people, nor is she privledged to this kind of information of the doings and goings of Dura. Her job is Community Manager. She helps give support and maintenance to the community, as well as flavor, which in the context of this Forum are snapshots of what is going on in Dura's community.
Best,
Aris
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