Tibia Lending and Borrowing

[Aeluu]

Hello OTLand,

I've been messing around with a lending and borrowing system on a local server and the basic functionality is pretty much close to be finished.

Right now the system allows the player to lend gold to a global fund for interest rewards, in which the borrowers depend on for the gold that they borrow. Borrowers take money from the global lend fund and pay it back plus the interest that's accrued over time. Lenders can withdrawal their loan at any time and gain the interest rewards from their time lending.

With that being said, there's obviously some moral / systematic flaws, where I have a few questions I'd like to ask.

How would I guarantee a player actually repays the loan after borrowing?

How would I mitigate players from borrowing gold and transferring it to another character or account?

What punishments should come about someone who does not pay back their borrowed debt? Should there be a time limit to repay the debt?

I'm sure as the discussion continues I'll think of other topics to revolve around. But in order for this to work on the most basic of ways, the borrowers would have to repay the borrowed debt. Otherwise there will be problems with funding.

Feel free to bring up anything else you might want to add, or any suggestions you have for new features / ideas with the system.

 

[Boy67]

Cool concept, not sure it fits the tibia environment.

How would I guarantee a player actually repays the loan after borrowing?
After a certain amount of time, if missed payments, the players bank balance could be debited. If the player has a balance of 0, they go into a negative balance.

How would I mitigate players from borrowing gold and transferring it to another character or account?
There should be a minimum time before being able to borrow, such as the account and/or player should be "x" days old. You could also introduce a trust/reputation system, sort of like our real world credit system to see if they get accepted or not.

What punishments should come about someone who does not pay back their borrowed debt? Should there be a time limit to repay the debt?
Obviously there should be a time limit, if someone borrows money they aren't required to immediately begin repaying it. Other than the player risking going into a negative bank balance, maybe other repercussions such as reduced exp/loot rate. Idk xD

 

[oen432]

Cool concept, not sure it fits the tibia environment.

How would I guarantee a player actually repays the loan after borrowing?
After a certain amount of time, if missed payments, the players bank balance could be debited. If the player has a balance of 0, they go into a negative balance.

How would I mitigate players from borrowing gold and transferring it to another character or account?
There should be a minimum time before being able to borrow, such as the account and/or player should be "x" days old. You could also introduce a trust/reputation system, sort of like our real world credit system to see if they get accepted or not.

What punishments should come about someone who does not pay back their borrowed debt? Should there be a time limit to repay the debt?
Obviously there should be a time limit, if someone borrows money they aren't required to immediately begin repaying it. Other than the player risking going into a negative bank balance, maybe other repercussions such as reduced exp/loot rate. Idk xD

Maximum amount based on character level (also require minimum level), prevent borrowing if last loan is yet to be paid.
If you are in debt, your bank balance goes negative but that doesn't prevent you from keeping gold in depo. To get around this when player buys something from a NPC (ammo, potions, runes etc.), final cost will be increased by X% and that % will be used to pay his/her debt. You can use this in other systems like rewards from Tasks, Quests etc.

 

[Aeluu]

Maximum amount based on character level (also require minimum level), prevent borrowing if last loan is yet to be paid.
If you are in debt, your bank balance goes negative but that doesn't prevent you from keeping gold in depo. To get around this when player buys something from a NPC (ammo, potions, runes etc.), final cost will be increased by X% and that % will be used to pay his/her debt. You can use this in other systems like rewards from Tasks, Quests etc.

I hadn't thought about that. My servers gold system I'm playing with actually has no in game gold. It's all tied to your bank balance. So when gold is dropped, it's automatically added to that balance and never actually looted by the player as an item.

So the case where players keep gold in the depot would be negated.

 

[Competitibia]

I hadn't thought about that. My servers gold system I'm playing with actually has no in game gold. It's all tied to your bank balance. So when gold is dropped, it's automatically added to that balance and never actually looted by the player as an item.

So the case where players keep gold in the depot would be negated.

well so he said if u can reward ppl with money from quests/ tasks then it can go into banks. perhaps some daily tasks missions that will allow players to gain that gold such as deliver parcel for postman x3 postmans daily at random will be able to do for them u can choose which postman let u deliver parcel all give various rewards can be gold xp or maybe some items. or other tasks in general. like sell 20 swords to smith so he can make some iron ingots for longswords or whateer
or offer some incentive for being good credit. e.g paying less interest for example on your loans.

anyways why would anyone use this system in not scammy way? (take and never log again) id bet getting to level 8 is easy

 

[Aeluu]

well so he said if u can reward ppl with money from quests/ tasks then it can go into banks. perhaps some daily tasks missions that will allow players to gain that gold such as deliver parcel for postman x3 postmans daily at random will be able to do for them u can choose which postman let u deliver parcel all give various rewards can be gold xp or maybe some items. or other tasks in general. like sell 20 swords to smith so he can make some iron ingots for longswords or whateer
or offer some incentive for being good credit. e.g paying less interest for example on your loans.

anyways why would anyone use this system in not scammy way? (take and never log again) id bet getting to level 8 is easy

I do like that idea. And yeah, see that's what I'm trying to figure out. How to make it not scammy to use. How to mitigate the player from doing exactly that, just taking and never logging in again.

There would have to be a credit system that the world is based around. It'd be tied to your account across characters. Better credit = better npc prices, house rent, lending interest rates, etc. Worse credit is the negative of that.

I feel people would use it. Idk how many times people asked to borrow money in a game. The fees also take gold out of the game and helps manage inflation.

There's a ton of opportunity with this system and I feel it can be adopted in a shitton of different ways. This is why I'm discussing it.

 

[oen432]

FYI this can easily create inflation and ruin economy.
This is why in RL life you need to backup borrowing lots of money (proof that you have a job and generate profit etc). It's going to be hard to do something like that in TIbia as only character level is the only thing that says "you can trust me, I'll pay it back".

 

[Silba]

On first offense send them to a 'jail island' naked and with no access to their main depot, bank or mainland but access to shops and hunting zones so they can go and earn money and pay off their debt without any chance of profiting. When the debt is paid teleport them to their home town naked. 0 profit from this island. Then don't let them borrow again for some time.

On second offense ban them for 3 days then send them to jail island and don't allow them to borrow again for a longer time.

On third offense ban them for 30 days and don't allow them to borrow for a minimum of 30 days after their ban.

Lock this feature behind a level and quest requirement to deter abuse and ensure only players who value their character will be lending.

Sounds really fun to be honest, love the idea. Good luck with it !

Edit: This jail island should disable exp gain and skill gain.

 

[Aeluu]

FYI this can easily create inflation and ruin economy.
This is why in RL life you need to backup borrowing lots of money (proof that you have a job and generate profit etc). It's going to be hard to do something like that in TIbia as only character level is the only thing that says "you can trust me, I'll pay it back".

What if it were tied to the characters level, bank balance, age, etc.

Post automatically merged: Aug 7, 2021

On first offense send them to a 'jail island' naked and with no access to their main depot, bank or mainland but access to shops and hunting zones so they can go and earn money and pay off their debt without any chance of profiting. When the debt is paid teleport them to their home town naked. 0 profit from this island. Then don't let them borrow again for some time.

On second offense ban them for 3 days then send them to jail island and don't allow them to borrow again for a longer time.

On third offense ban them for 30 days and don't allow them to borrow for a minimum of 30 days after their ban.

Lock this feature behind a level and quest requirement to deter abuse and ensure only players who value their character will be lending.

Sounds really fun to be honest, love the idea. Good luck with it !

Edit: This jail island should disable exp gain and skill gain.

Internment camps, I love the idea

 

[xKrazyx]

not sure how it would be in practice, but good idea. When I played tibia 7.6 back in the day, this happened naturally between players, but I imagine your system is for people who dont have friends or guilds, or is it more for the lender to make money? or both I guess
@oens level suggestion is very important I think.

I hate rules in general, so I dont like the restriction penalties mentioned personally, but they could work.

(I know the below exists in some games ive played)
If your server is PvP, I would make a bounty system on players that dont pay their debt.
When a person kills someone with a bounty, depending on the bounty target's level, the bounty/or part of the bounty is paid to the Mercenary, while some of the debt is removed(depending on loss) and part of the loan, or whole depending on amount, is automatically repaid to the shark/lender upon death, (or they could pick it up from the NPC or something), the mercenary would also not receive an unjustified frag, due to the fact the player who took the loan has a 'defaulted' status. If the player paid off the debt the bounty would be removed, they can pay partial to lower the bounty. You could be savage and just keep the bounty until they paid it, no matter if they die or not.

It would essentially create a mercenary type atmosphere where players who take loans and not pay would get punished with deathloss, while mercenary's would be incentivized to kill them. Sharks/Lenders would also possibly message players to try and hunt down the person who didnt pay the loan back. As long as they made the payments, wouldnt have to worry about a thing.

It would also decrease risk for lenders, as you would know theres pretty much a 100% chance youll eventually get your money, unless that person just never logs in again.

fun idea

also would have to think about how players would try and exploit this system, thats a headache, could also open the door for massive PA

 

[Aeluu]

Here is a proof of concept of a basic lending/borrowing npc for my custom currency, Tharian gems.

[TFS 1.x] Lending and Borrowing NPC (For Custom Currency)

Sorry for having to put it on a gist, it was just too much text to post.

Post automatically merged: Aug 7, 2021

not sure how it would be in practice, but good idea. When I played tibia 7.6 back in the day, this happened naturally between players, but I imagine your system is for people who dont have friends or guilds, or is it more for the lender to make money? or both I guess
@oens level suggestion is very important I think.

I hate rules in general, so I dont like the restriction penalties mentioned personally, but they could work.

(I know the below exists in some games ive played)
If your server is PvP, I would make a bounty system on players that dont pay their debt.
When a person kills someone with a bounty, depending on the bounty target's level, the bounty/or part of the bounty is paid to the Mercenary, while some of the debt is removed(depending on loss) and part of the loan, or whole depending on amount, is automatically repaid to the shark/lender upon death, (or they could pick it up from the NPC or something), the mercenary would also not receive an unjustified frag, due to the fact the player who took the loan has a 'defaulted' status. If the player paid off the debt the bounty would be removed, they can pay partial to lower the bounty. You could be savage and just keep the bounty until they paid it, no matter if they die or not.

It would essentially create a mercenary type atmosphere where players who take loans and not pay would get punished with deathloss, while mercenary's would be incentivized to kill them. Sharks/Lenders would also possibly message players to try and hunt down the person who didnt pay the loan back. As long as they made the payments, wouldnt have to worry about a thing.

It would also decrease risk for lenders, as you would know theres pretty much a 100% chance youll eventually get your money, unless that person just never logs in again.

fun idea

also would have to think about how players would try and exploit this system, thats a headache, could also open the door for massive PA

Love the idea of the bounty system for players who don't repay their debt. Adds another PVP mechanic to the game for that crowd as well.

My idea for this was simple. A new player joins a server where pretty much any other player has more money than they do. They're already at a disadvantage. If they would like to experience the game faster, while sacrificing gold gains, they can take out a loan to buy new equipment, runes, potions, etc.

This does a couple of things. The first and foremost thing it does is remove money from the game. If they're spending their borrowed money, then that is gold deleted from the game, thus decreasing inflation. When they repay the loan, that money IS NOT PUT BACK INTO THE FUNDING POOL (unlike traditional lending). That money is deleted from the game. The "Lender" will always have the same amount of gold in their lend throughout the period they're lending, the "Borrower" is never actually taking money from the "Lender". It just simply calculates the margin from lends - borrows and if there are more borrows than lends, you'll receive a message saying "There isn't enough funding in the global fund...". That's how this system differs from traditional lending.

Traditional lending goes like this:
aGuy funds the global fund for 100g
aNotherGuy funds the global fund for 500g

bGuy borrows from the global fund 250g
At that moment, aGuy's lend is taken off the market, and only 350g of aNotherGuy's lend remains.

bGuy pays back the loan and the borrowed money is dispersed between the two lenders, proportionally.

In this version of lending, it would go like this:
aGuy funds the global fund for 100g
aNotherGuy funds the global fund for 500g

bGuy borrows from the global fund 250g
The TOTAL GLOBAL MARGIN is calculated and the remaining fund available is 350g
At this time, both aGuy and aNotherGuy can withdrawal their total fund, leaving the global margin at -250g, which is what bGuy is borrowing.

bGuy pays back the loan and the total global margin is increased back to 0g total

 

[Silba]

Here is a proof of concept of a basic lending/borrowing npc for my custom currency, Tharian gems.

[TFS 1.x] Lending and Borrowing NPC (For Custom Currency)

Sorry for having to put it on a gist, it was just too much text to post.

thanks for sharing, it's definitely an interesting idea and really i could see this kind of thing being big on those rlmap bot servers where gambling and stuff is very popular. People lending money to gamble etc

 

[Competitibia]

I do like that idea. And yeah, see that's what I'm trying to figure out. How to make it not scammy to use. How to mitigate the player from doing exactly that, just taking and never logging in again.

There would have to be a credit system that the world is based around. It'd be tied to your account across characters. Better credit = better npc prices, house rent, lending interest rates, etc. Worse credit is the negative of that.

I feel people would use it. Idk how many times people asked to borrow money in a game. The fees also take gold out of the game and helps manage inflation.

There's a ton of opportunity with this system and I feel it can be adopted in a shitton of different ways. This is why I'm discussing it.

soulbound items bought from the money. EG player cant travel with borrowed money can only buy potions /runes that are "store like" in real tibia can only be used by them

 

[drakylucas]

In my opinion, it won't work. It would work if players could have only one account/character (as in real life) but I don't think you can limit it in a safe way (people can create many accounts, and change their IPs). Another negative point is that it's too complicated. It must be easy to understand in order to people really start using it.

Think about the situation that someone borrows a lot of money, spend all and then stop playing. The bank will always be in debt. If it happens with more players, the bank will never recover and no one will trust their money lending to the bank.


What, in my opinion, you could do is to make a guild bank npc that all guild members can deposit money, and some people with guild rank > x could take money from it (without taxes, maybe limiting the amount per player). This way, if you trust in your guild members, it could work.

 

[zbizu]

I think that the largest problem would be making sure that the player has something to repay. You would have to seize something in order to prevent the player from getting rid of everything. Vindication could get quite complex especially when it's so easy to just send the money and items to other character and never log in again.

A kind of pawn shop would do the trick, but there would have to be some limits on how long an item can be stored, how cheap/expensive items can be stored, how much you have to pay back and how many can be stored to discourage the players from having both - lots of money and easily accessible rares on demand.

Items that weren't repaid, could appear on npc trade list. The npc prices could be inspired by market to add immersion.

The npc could also take meme prices for djinn items to profit off those who don't have the quest completed.

 

[drakylucas]

I think that the largest problem would be making sure that the player has something to repay. You would have to seize something in order to prevent the player from getting rid of everything. Vindication could get quite complex especially when it's so easy to just send the money and items to other character and never log in again.

A kind of pawn shop would do the trick, but there would have to be some limits on how long an item can be stored, how cheap/expensive items can be stored and how many can be stored to discourage the players from having both - lots of money and easily accessible rares on demand.

Items that weren't repaid, could appear on npc trade list. The npc prices could be inspired by market to add immersion.

The npc could also take meme prices for djinn items to profit off those who don't have the quest completed.

Pawn shop is a good idea, but the prices shouldn't be based on market.. It could be easy to abuse (just sell/buy some trash on market that no one would buy to a friend, and you already have a very expensive item on market that actually doesn't value anything).

 

[zbizu]

Inspired, not fully dependent. Some model could be applied to prevent the system from getting fooled while still maintaining the general idea of buy/sell price. Someone skilled enough could try machine learning there.

If I were to write such system, I'd make it look for the most diverse char/ip pool per price, make low level players big transactions weight much less in the calculations (basically level 8 that spent 20kk in one day isn't a reliable source of data) and use the default price if there wasn't enough data (or make the item impossible to use as a loan backup if there wasn't enough market data on it)

Big deviations would be ignored unless either manual approval or entire server trading like that. If automated price regulation doesn't suit you, you could write a kind of aggregator to show changes in the item prices to you like stock market.

 

[Handicap Ninja]

a better idea is to make a charity fund where players can donate cash and noob gear for new players

no one in his right mind is going to lend out anything to noobchars and expect to make a profit

 

[Competitibia]

a better idea is to make a charity fund where players can donate cash and noob gear for new players

no one in his right mind is going to lend out anything to noobchars and expect to make a profit

Public depotbox is great idea!

 

[oen432]

Public depotbox is great idea!

Not really. I mean, we are talking about Tibia here. It's like you guys don't know who is playing this game. Whatever will be put into that box will be gone within minutes as act of trolling.