My Real Map Project (Discussion Thread)

[J.Dre]

@joseph

trust me; nobody would start playing an ot without a bot, i can guarentee that.. now a days, there are hardly any servers which get players if they do not have big teams playing, or its a popular server that has a big reputation and polish(no racism, it's the truth, tell me a popular 8.60 server with no teams normal rate and not polish), maybe 1-2 servers get a lot of players, but they are usually high rates and so on

You're wrong. The main reason servers fail without allowing bots, is because their owners know nothing of how to host, run and manage. You have to give players a reason to stay and play, a guarantee. Some used to believe when NeoBot was disassembled, Tibia would collapse. Why does it still maintain nearly 30,000 players daily? Because they guarantee stability, great updates, and protection from resets and shutdowns.

Don't be so naive to believe that botting is the reason OpenTibia Servers have failed, that's just a pathetic excuse to give up. Newbies who join OTLand & OTFans with absolutely no knowledge of how to run a server, who leech off of others and demand scripts be made, all so they can acquire money from "donations," is what I believe is the reason for the state of which OpenTibia is currently in. Allowing people to cheat could help and probably will, considering how lazy people are these days. I'm simply stating you can't blame "not having a bot" for having little to no players and never moving on past 8.60...it's pathetic.

 

[BeniS]

You're wrong. The main reason servers fail without allowing bots, is because their owners know nothing of how to host, run and manage. You have to give players a reason to stay and play, a guarantee. Some used to believe when NeoBot was disassembled, Tibia would collapse. Why does it still maintain nearly 30,000 players daily? Because they guarantee stability, great updates, and protection from resets and shutdowns.

Don't be so neive to believe that botting is the reason OpenTibia Servers have failed, that's just a pathetic excuse to give up. Newbies who join OTLand & OTFans with absolutely no knowledge of how to run a server, who leech off of others and demand scripts be made, all so they can acquire money from "donations," is what I believe is the reason for the state of which OpenTibia is currently in. Allowing people to cheat could help and probably will, considering how lazy people are these days. I'm simply stating you can't blame "not having a bot" for having little to no players and never moving on past 8.60...it's pathetic.

Well how is it explained that when I opened my server 9.10 with better features and functionality to any other server I've seen around for a while failed to get players because almost every single person was telling me to move back to 8.60 so they can use Elfbot, I don't think it is naive to think bots are contributing to OpenTibia players at all.

 

[MxSoft]

Well how is it explained that when I opened my server 9.10 with better features and functionality to any other server I've seen around for a while failed to get players because almost every single person was telling me to move back to 8.60 so they can use Elfbot, I don't think it is naive to think bots are contributing to OpenTibia players at all.

Which server was yours BeniS?

 

[Elementz]

maveria i think

 

[MxSoft]

What where there unique features?

 

[BeniS]

What where there unique features?

Lots of features focused around pvp mostly.

Just search Maveria on YouTube.

I can't be bothered explaining right now hehe (at work on my break!! )

 

[J.Dre]

Well how is it explained that when I opened my server 9.10 with better features and functionality to any other server I've seen around for a while failed to get players because almost every single person was telling me to move back to 8.60 so they can use Elfbot, I don't think it is naive to think bots are contributing to OpenTibia players at all.

Lack of knowledge when it comes to Marketing and Advertising, perhaps even funds to do so properly.

There are several possible scenarios I can think of. But no one knows for certain what caused it, except the person who failed.

 

[BeniS]

Lack of knowledge when it comes to Marketing and Advertising, as well as possible lack of funds to do so properly. No one knows except the person who failed.

Oh OK so the people telling me what they wanted (8.60 for Elfbot) were just being silly, and the real reason it failed was due to lack of marketing and advertising? Lol it had 200-300 players at one point until large majority left because they decided they were tired of using MageBot. The real reason people fail is when they struggle to make a server fun without a bot, which is extremely hard when you are designing a tibia server, just because of Tibia's natural dynamic. So to me I think: If you don't have bot support, you better be doing a damn good job making the server fun without a bot (goodluck with that haha - not impossible but really hard).

 

[J.Dre]

Oh OK so the people telling me what they wanted (8.60 for Elfbot) were just being silly, and the real reason it failed was due to lack of marketing and advertising? Lol it had 200-300 players at one point until large majority left because they decided they were tired of using MageBot. The real reason people fail is when they struggle to make a server fun without a bot, which is extremely hard when you are designing a tibia server, just because of Tibia's natural dynamic. So to me I think: If you don't have bot support, you better be doing a damn good job making the server fun without a bot (goodluck with that haha - not impossible but really hard).

And there are more than 20,000 people playing OpenTibia servers? Stop blaming it on a program, it's pathetic. I'm sure you can figure out other ways to keep players interested.

 

[MxSoft]

If you dont allow bot in an ot, peoplae will start saying "Oh WTF, for this i go to RL, fuck this." I support BeniS, i have hosting 3 years and i have 3 years hearing the same.
And there is TIbiaibot, all players uses it now.

 

[BeniS]

And there are more than 20,000 people playing OpenTibia servers? Stop blaming it on a program, it's pathetic. I'm sure you can figure out other ways to keep players interested.

You fail to understand the market of players within the OpenTibia community. If you did proper research into the market you would quickly find out that there is a very small diversity of players: Players from real Tibia that want a real server to war or rpg in and Players from OpenTibia communities that follow forums and fan sites. So out of both sets of people majority of them have played real tibia before and understand the game from that perspective. The idea of a bot has been so deeply embedded into the Tibia community its only up until recently when they decided to lock down on the issue that players have started to move off the bot. If you actually analyze Cipsofts situation they have peaked there players at around 20-24k when back in the day they would peak 50-60k on a good day. Tibia's player base is growing at such a slow rate that it actually seems like it has idled, while they might not have lost a lot of players, they have not grown substantially in years.

So now what? Players have left real tibia and go to play OpenTibia servers in order to use bots. It cracks me up that you still tell me that I am blaming the program yet you tell me "do what the players want in order to make them stay" which in my case was move back to 8.60 client so they can use Elfbot, who is being naive?

No more off topic now! <3

 

[J.Dre]

You fail to understand the market of players within the OpenTibia community. If you did proper research into the market you would quickly find out that there is a very small diversity of players: Players from real Tibia that want a real server to war or rpg in and Players from OpenTibia communities that follow forums and fan sites. So out of both sets of people majority of them have played real tibia before and understand the game from that perspective. The idea of a bot has been so deeply embedded into the Tibia community its only up until recently when they decided to lock down on the issue that players have started to move off the bot. If you actually analyze Cipsofts situation they have peaked there players at around 20-24k when back in the day they would peak 50-60k on a good day. Tibia's player base is growing at such a slow rate that it actually seems like it has idled, while they might not have lost a lot of players, they have not grown substantially in years.

So now what? Players have left real tibia and go to play OpenTibia servers in order to use bots. It cracks me up that you still tell me that I am blaming the program yet you tell me "do what the players want in order to make them stay" which in my case was move back to 8.60 client so they can use Elfbot, who is being naive?

No more off topic now! <3

In a general sense, you seem to be implying it is impossible to have a successful server without allowing people to bot, remaining at client 8.60. In the end it all comes down to the bot, yet again you resort to blaming the Program for failure. You are the one who does not fully understand what is happening. And when you stated that I said "do what the players want", did you ever consider you should expand your view of "players" beyond those who must bot? Of course not. There is no reason to make a failed attempt of mockery toward my knowledge of Marketing and Advertising, as I excel in both areas. I suggest you stop making pathetic excuses and move on. I hope your view on this particular situation isn't spread among new members among us, ultimately resulting in a further decline in OpenTibia's lifespan, yet again. However, we are all entitled to our own opinion. If you feel it is absolutely necessary to be successful in OpenTibia by means of allowing people to cheat, so be it. I respectfully disagree.

 

[JoSePh15_]

Well BeniS, I'm totally supporting J.Dre's comment about you failed to run the server. Have a look on Red's server (here). He has about 70-80 players playing at night, and a minimum of 30 players online all over the day. The server is 9.53, that means it doesn't have elfbot, just as your server! But he managed to advertise it properly and got players to play it!

@edit
I'm actually working on 2 projects simultaneously, the rl map project and another project (100% custom map), high exp server. It will be the latest tibia version, I will try my best to advertise correctly and get players/teams to play it. And we'll see if it fails.

 

[Bintzer]

This was actually quite an intelligent conversation until J. Dre's last post, just nonsensical flaming. BeniS was only giving his opinions, with explanations from his personal experiences. Please give me the definition of a "successful" server? The server I play on has an average of less than 30 players online, but still a much better community than most other servers I've playn with 100+ players. It is also raking in the donation money, which gives us more of an incentive to keep developing. If a player sees that it is truly a serious server, they're more likely to donate a larger amount of money. (obviously there is no botting allowed, and its well enforced)
Maybe some people would rather play a server 100+ botters, who go around and randomly pk people when they're not. I am not one of those people.

BeniS has a point, his explanation of the market was spot on in my opinion. You just have to ask yourself what kind of players you want? In my opinion BeniS, your server failed because the updates started to get more infrequent, so players got bored. (I only played your OT for a week though, so tell me if I'm wrong) If they wanted to bot that badly they wouldn't have joined your server to begin with.

 

[Karchii Oawaa]

joseph =[ never on msn? lol

 

[BeniS]

This was actually quite an intelligent conversation until J. Dre's last post, just nonsensical flaming. BeniS was only giving his opinions, with explanations from his personal experiences. Please give me the definition of a "successful" server? The server I play on has an average of less than 30 players online, but still a much better community than most other servers I've playn with 100+ players. It is also raking in the donation money, which gives us more of an incentive to keep developing. If a player sees that it is truly a serious server, they're more likely to donate a larger amount of money. (obviously there is no botting allowed, and its well enforced)
Maybe some people would rather play a server 100+ botters, who go around and randomly pk people when they're not. I am not one of those people.

BeniS has a point, his explanation of the market was spot on in my opinion. You just have to ask yourself what kind of players you want? In my opinion BeniS, your server failed because the updates started to get more infrequent, so players got bored. (I only played your OT for a week though, so tell me if I'm wrong) If they wanted to bot that badly they wouldn't have joined your server to begin with.

Haha yes, I agree that was one of the reasons it got boring. I ran out of time to apply updates during that time because of my studies unfortunately. Maveria 8.60 was a lot more successful than my 9.10 (even though it had way more functionality). But anyway, it really is a mixture of reason as to why it didn't reach its full potential.

In a general sense, you seem to be implying it is impossible to have a successful server without allowing people to bot, remaining at client 8.60. In the end it all comes down to the bot, yet again you resort to blaming the Program for failure. You are the one who does not fully understand what is happening. And when you stated that I said "do what the players want", did you ever consider you should expand your view of "players" beyond those who must bot? Of course not. There is no reason to make a failed attempt of mockery toward my knowledge of Marketing and Advertising, as I excel in both areas. I suggest you stop making pathetic excuses and move on. I hope your view on this particular situation isn't spread among new members among us, ultimately resulting in a further decline in OpenTibia's lifespan, yet again. However, we are all entitled to our own opinion. If you feel it is absolutely necessary to be successful in OpenTibia by means of allowing people to cheat, so be it. I respectfully disagree.

As Bintzer stated, I was merely stating my opinion from my experience. The situation of bots really does come down to, "are you as a server host providing players with an alternative to what the bot is providing these players?" this is something even Cipsoft is failing to do, so yes I agree with you that its not the bot program itself that is the failing, its about providing something that is extremely hard and time consuming to produce for the consumer.

Well BeniS, I'm totally supporting J.Dre's comment about you failed to run the server. Have a look on Red's server (here). He has about 70-80 players playing at night, and a minimum of 30 players online all over the day. The server is 9.53, that means it doesn't have elfbot, just as your server! But he managed to advertise it properly and got players to play it!

@edit
I'm actually working on 2 projects simultaneously, the rl map project and another project (100% custom map), high exp server. It will be the latest tibia version, I will try my best to advertise correctly and get players/teams to play it. And we'll see if it fails.

Well actually because this has latest version of tibia client running it would most likely had Neobot or some other bot like this (XenoBot, etc).

 

[Red]

The sad truth is, 8.60 is a client that a lot of players prefer because they have the ability to do the only thing they know how to - use elfbot.
Elfbot is a piece of shit, and people cling to it because their eyes are completely closed. The success of a server doesn't solely depend on the client protocol, but 8.60 and real map with Gengia/Oken/Pyre are what a majority of OT players are looking for these days. Since they already have elfbot setup and ready to use they can bot up in a day and hopefully "pvp" the next.

It's just my opinion that people need to let go of elfbot, let it die. And let 8.60 servers die, because their functionality is shit. (To be completely honest, every time someone mentions using r.3777 or r.3884 it makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit)

So your server protocol depends solely on who you would like to attract to your server. My real map server hit 400 players at 8.62 when it was new, so it's not impossible, it's just very improbable.
And simply put, you can have the best, most functional, awesome, ground-breakingly-revolutionary server ever created and it will probably be less popular than the most recent "big" download-and-run garbage 8.60 real map server. Why? Well, simply put:
It's a piece of crap. And sometimes people love crap.

Sorry for interjecting though. <3 you both.
Red