New realmap project ~

[WibbenZ]

Well to make things short the some of the developers of the github project (https://github.com/PrinterLUA/FORGOTTENSERVER-ORTS) feel that its not that great to give something like this out for free.
What I need to know is, would you pay for something like this, not directly to the developers but to some charity(tba which one).

The thing is that atleast ive noticed since this project was released the download and run server has increased ALOT, and seeing as the developers are pretty much only helping them and they are not giving anything back. (Atleast most of them..)

What I need to know would you donate to some charity to get access to better files then those who have / will be added to the github project?
The scripts that are on the github page will ofc be added if they are good enough (if someone ever does anything on that page except the developers..)


As the project is right now its in decent shape, but can get really better and atleast I would be ready to release my files if that person would give something back, insted of just gaining money out of our time and effort.


Note to mods: Please do not remove this thread, pm me if you need to ask anything.

And id like to know what @Mark thinks about something like this, if we could take x% of the donations to pay and use the space on otland's dedicated to make it posible for those who have donated to get access to the files via otland insted of some other file service. If not I guess we have to get our own dedicated and create our own SVN page. (My toughts where if the old premmy svn is still working and can handle what we are looking for).

Regards WibbenZ and the others devs who thinks the same.

 

[Printer]

Just so you guys know, i vote no for this. Since i support "free open source movement" as @Mark have done with release source to tfs.

 

[ATT3]

I have to say you got an idea here and after reading the conversation at github I wouldn't have any problem "donating" some money for the project, as long as I know where the moneys are used for;
But for what?

From my point of view you are a bit frustrated/pissed off to the fact that pretty much anyone with common sense can just download it, buy dedicated server and earn money.
Well, that's not quite how I see it.

I have to say that I am a bit "jealous" to the ppl that are planning on starting OT, they can just download that project and do as you say.
I started my project in December, right after Printer released the project here at otland.
Now after, well shit.. 6 months I can say that I have fixed more bugs than I could have ever imagined there was.
I've spent more time on fixing those bugs that I would like to admit.
Yet now, pretty much every bug that I've fixed has been fixed at the github project aswell = I can somehow think that "I've done useless job".
In the other hand I can tell you that I have learned so much while fixing these bugs that I must give some value for that, and I do.

I have started seeing much more 10.35+ RL maps since the github project was released, but as
Ninja said (somewhat~) Most download and run servers die.
And tbh, most of them die really fast. /For several reasons:
1. No experience from hosting OT / begin OT owner = bad/"noob" reputation?
2. No scripting experience e.g if he can't fix a simple bug on his server, the players will leave when they see that its taking so long fix small bug.
3. When they got the server and other stuff so easily, they can get a bit ignorant and think that getting 200+ players is easy. = disappointment = possible "quit"

local successful server = server with least 100 active daily players

Summing these up here = Making successful server out of that github project isn't easy at all = most "download and run" servers will die within very short time.
Now that I am thinking / looking at it I don't think that theres a single "successful" server created out of that project.
Atm successful 10.35+ servers =
Twifysoft servers, (Huge amount of experience, knowledge and dedication for the servers)
gunzodus, ("Custom/fun RL map server with few years history")
Some BR servers (Not gonna name them since I know nothing about them)

But then again you mentioned ethania somewhere.
Well, I have to say that I have been wondering for the past 2 years = what is so special about that OT, why do players play there?

Before you read this I have to say that this: The OT owner is only doing this for money, and is very inactive.
I know that I am not the only one who hates him since nearly everybody does, yet his ots have been always successful for the past 3-4 years.
Conclusion, ORDER BY "importance"
1. Good memories/ experiences from that OT. Personally I can say that I have some great memories from there, makes me wanna play again
2. Good advertising = the OT usually has 300-600 players the first day, and the amount won't start decreasing after the first day since he has;
2. "Good", stable OT without bugs. (I know it's not special or anything to brag with but it doesn't have unnecessary edits on the map and that will do for most of us.
4. Players keep themselves entertained by sneaking / hunting / waring with others -> If u have played tibia OTs for longer time you know how this nearly endless cycle goes.
3. Balanced vocations/"everything". Even tho his jewing with all "star wands and firewalker boots" I have to say that after all the server is quite balanced.

8.6 RL map is still popular, why? (elfbot, players know alot tricks/traps and other nice things around the map, they want to use them)

 

[Evil Puncker]

pls no since brs will pay, take files, modify one line and sell them in br black market

 

[dominique120]

pls no since brs will pay, take files, modify one line and sell them in br black market

They already do this


What should have been done long ago is use a license like the eclipse license that forces users of this code to publish the code they use.

 

[Summ]

What should have been done long ago is use a license like the eclipse license that forces users of this code to publish the code they use.

That would totally change everything.

 

[WibbenZ]

Since im on my phone and not home atm im not gonna give any huge awnsers to all this till tomorow.

@Printer No chock to me that you dont support this, you want your project to continue but it will die out if this happens.


To you all, remember that this is for a good cause. And what I get atleast @Royalot would prefer to work on one private, or what I wrote.
This will happen the diffrence is if we/I will make the files public. And the thing with open source if we void gesior tfs etc only ruins this community... how has this project helped the community?

But as I said this will happen, the mather is if we keep releasing the scripts(if you donate to some charity and can prove it) or keeping them for our self.

I will not release more scripts or help others with printers "easy money project"..



And FYI its up to printer if he wants to keep his github page. But if @Ninja and @Royalot would wanna do the same as me / starts something new the github page is dead. Seeing as printer has made 3-4 changes after we wrote about this. And before that it was a long time since....

 

[Printer]

As i explained and still you dont see the big picture.
The meaning of the project wad to bring everyone together and let people learn to coding and manage a server by have a decent one to open.
I also released this out to the public to make us all a favor, so that all switch to tfs 1.0. Which we succeded with.
About that project would die, is not true. Even tho im not in a posistion to update the server due to little ram, which i will upgrade this month.
If you want to split the community, be my guest. Ive looked on the statistics on github and the project has over 600 unique visitors from otland and other forums, i can tell you many of them has joined otland.

 

[Techrlz]

I agree with @WibbenZ ,

The most of ppl only download and run, making a "money project" if need help with develope i can help..

 

[Printer]

Dedicate servers cost money, i dont think anyone would open for free.

 

[dominique120]

Dedicate servers cost money, i dont think anyone would open for free.

I did, alcheraot.biz. It pulls from your repo every 24 hours(it is always up to date), but I dont advertise because it is still a bit buggy.

 

[WibbenZ]

Well its hard to not get arounf. You invest 60-150eur and get about the double. Its also about making something better. Ex person Frank donates 20eur to cancer research and gets access to our files that 3 good devs create insted of you and some no offence noobs who creates the first script.

The free/cheapest thing is rarely the best you will notice that when you move on in your life.

I did, alcheraot.biz. It pulls from your repo every 24 hours(it is always up to date), but I dont advertise because it is still a bit buggy.

What you are saying since you voted no is that you do not want to donate to some charity to get a better server, insted others are supposed to get your server working?

 

[obamanizer]

UGH.... stoppppppp with Rl servers.......... just stopppppppppppppppppppppppppp

 

[WibbenZ]

UGH.... stoppppppp with Rl servers.......... just stopppppppppppppppppppppppppp

Well if we are gonna have realmaps shoulden't we have good rlmaps? Stop with the hating of rlmaps, no developers feels like creating a custom ot that gets 5 players and does not even pay for the dedi cost. If you wish to start one with mid exp I would not mind joining it. But seeing as they max out at 50 players they rarely go around. Grow up...

They already do this


What should have been done long ago is use a license like the eclipse license that forces users of this code to publish the code they use.

Tbh no one cares about licenses etc in this community, maybe you but most don't. They just download it and clicks the start button, otherwise they spam the support board on how they can setup the paypal and paygol systems..
No one can force us to release the codes we create, but this could be a good thing.. Money goes to a charity and the person who donates gets files 100 times better then the ones on printers github page. Just compare how big it was in the begining compared to now. Ive gotten like 15 emails today, all have been "did I do this right", "Well did I?", "Does that quest work?", "Humm? Does it?".. That project is dead just a matter of time until printer realizes it.

And if I understood it correctly both @Ninja and @Royalot are on my side with this, and if you check the github page and void printer's 3-4 new commits this week there are no other big commits that has been done.

 

[Mark]

It seems like you still don't understand what I've outlined in this post: http://otland.net/threads/moving-forward.198835/ (where I even gave up on arguing against you because I was just repeating myself to someone who wasn't understanding). I don't really have much to add, I'll just put it short: I don't support this idea. It takes away the openness and potentially the freedom in the software that we offer today.

 

[Printer]

Wibbenz, Everything i learned from the community was for free. So, i gave something back. If you want crush that feeling go ahead, since people will not learn, by you making the files private.

Nothing to argue about, there is always pro;s and cons.

 

[WibbenZ]

Then this can be closed if someone would like this they can pm me insted.

 

[dominique120]

What you are saying since you voted no is that you do not want to donate to some charity to get a better server, insted others are supposed to get your server working?

It is not expected of someone who uses open source code to donate money to the creators as they distribute their work to be used freely. You use Linux dont you? I'm sure you have not donated, yet those people still develop and you continue to use the operating system.

I voted no because I do not support your desire to monetize something that was intended to be free by its creator(@Printer)

Tbh no one cares about licenses etc in this community, maybe you but most don't. They just download it and clicks the start button, otherwise they spam the support board on how they can setup the paypal and paygol systems..
No one can force us to release the codes we create, but this could be a good thing.. Money goes to a charity and the person who donates gets files 100 times better then the ones on printers github page. Just compare how big it was in the begining compared to now. Ive gotten like 15 emails today, all have been "did I do this right", "Well did I?", "Does that quest work?", "Humm? Does it?".. That project is dead just a matter of time until printer realizes it.

And if I understood it correctly both @Ninja and @Royalot are on my side with this, and if you check the github page and void printer's 3-4 new commits this week there are no other big commits that has been done.

No one in this community respects licenses because its immature(take obamanizer's comment) and people dont want to respect other people's creations or work. And yes, in a legal situation(not happening here on otland) the license forces you to comply(relese the source code.)

 

[WibbenZ]

I donated about 35eur last time I downloaded ubuntu, and that wasent long since.

You also make it sound like the money are going to the devs. Where did I say that?

I said that in case mark could spare forum space we would pay x% of the donations. The rest would go to some charity.
If I was in need of money I would never had started this. I would have sold it just like I have sold other things in the past.

As it sounded on github everyone tought it could be a nice thing, they get good stuff compared to the crap thats on the github page(most of it) and the money would go to something good.

Read this before saying anything else.

https://github.com/PrinterLUA/FORGOTTENSERVER-ORTS/commit/97477efc2e83f72596eb32299af0acc22cf2fab4